Brett Linkletter (00:00)
Sara, how are you?

Cherryh (00:02)
I'm doing great. How are you, Brett? Good to be here.

Brett Linkletter (00:04)
I'm doing good too. I'm I'm excited to chat with you. I was doing a little research on you prior and you have quite the track record. super cool by the way, everything you've done. over the last looks like ten plus years. I mean, wow.

Cherryh (00:16)
Forever.

Cherryh (00:17)
Thanks. I'm a little nervous because I'm on usually on the other side of the microphone. So I'm a

Brett Linkletter (00:21)
Yeah.

Cherryh (00:21)
control freak and so, you know, kinda letting you letting you drive today, that's new for me.

Brett Linkletter (00:25)
No, this is gonna be fun.

Brett Linkletter (00:27)
well, just to keep things off, Sheridan, just for those who who don't know you, and I think a lot of people probably have heard of you or seen a lot of your work. I I hope if they're in the restaurant space,

Cherryh (00:36)
Hope so.

Brett Linkletter (00:37)
right? I've seen a lot of your work and it's incredible. So appreciate that. I've learned a lot from from what you've been about and and what you've been a part of. But for those who don't know you, can you just give a quick background on yourself, what you've been up to, what excites you and and really what you do overall.

Cherryh (00:50)
Yes, so I'm the publisher of fastcasual.com, which is obviously the industry trade for the fast casual industry. And I'm also the co-host of Fast Casual Nation, the podcast. And I also host and kind of put together all of our food events, which include the Fast Casual Executive Summit, the Restaurant Operate the Restaurant and Franchise Innovation Summit, the restaurant catering workshop, restaurant marketing workshop. So everything in media and

Cherryh (01:18)
Just to help restaurateurs grow their businesses is what we're into. And one of my big passions is giving women and people of color a spotlight, a stage to be highlighted because in the past, you know, over the past several years it's gotten better, but then the leadership has been dominated I think by by white men and it's time for a change. So that's kinda w one of my second like passion is to give other places. Yes.

Brett Linkletter (01:42)
I love that. Very cool. No, very, very cool.

Brett Linkletter (01:46)
Sure, where are you from originally, by the way, too?

Cherryh (01:48)
I am born and raised in a little town called Lawson, Missouri, which is forty five minutes north of Kansas City. I still live in Kansas City, a little bit north of there. I am a huge Chiefs fan, Royals fan, live and die by KC. Yeah, it's

Brett Linkletter (01:58)
I saw that too. Very cool, very cool.

Cherryh (02:02)
super hot here right now, it's like ninety-eight degrees and super humid, but I'll probably believe it.

Brett Linkletter (02:07)
Yeah, I'm I'm based in I'm based in

Brett Linkletter (02:08)
Miami and it's it's very hot and humid as well right now this time of the year. So we're we're in the same situation. Yeah. True, true. So

Cherryh (02:12)
At least you have the ocean though, we're landlocked.

Brett Linkletter (02:16)
sure, I have man, I have so much I want to discuss with you today. and I and I really want to make the most of our time today. you again, you you just spoke about what you've helped in the restaurant industry from marketing to growing restaurants overall. a lot has changed specifically over the last two years with AI, with new developments, the new tech.

Brett Linkletter (02:36)
we've seen a lot of amazing trends. but I'd love to see from your perspective, where do you see where do you see restaurant operators focusing right now if they want to drastically grow their brand this year? What are the things that you're seeing that are surprising to you, exciting to you, and where do you think people should be focusing their time right now?

Cherryh (02:56)
Well, I think obviously we always talk about on our pod is AI, of course, but I think

Brett Linkletter (03:01)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (03:01)
that it's kind of overrated in some aspects. People kind of just like it to talk about it, but like really how are you using it? And it can be something as simple as like asking, you know, Claude or Gemini or whatever for some, you know, marketing help or looking at I know some restaurant tours are using it like, well, we're gonna look at site selection for real estate and they feed in the criteria and it's helping them narrow down maybe

Cherryh (03:26)
Instead of l going to visit 17 places in person, they only have to visit three or four. So just

Brett Linkletter (03:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (03:32)
using it smarter like that, I think that's great. And then obviously marketing, that's huge. But and I've heard you guys talk on this podcast a lot, it marketing isn't what it used to be, you know. So just figuring out how to get connected to the customer and how to personalize and customize pretty much every single thing in your toolkit because customers now, especially the younger customers, want everything the way they want it exactly.

Cherryh (03:56)
When and how and I think market

Brett Linkletter (03:57)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (03:58)
is the key to figuring that out for sure.

Brett Linkletter (04:01)
Hundred percent.

Brett Linkletter (04:02)
Yeah, you said finding ways to help restaurants connect with guests. This is something that I've spoken with many people in the podcast about where I always tell I always tell owners and operators this is like your their nature is great at connecting with the guests once they're within their four walls. But how do we connect

Cherryh (04:17)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (04:17)
with them online? it's it's not easy. And like to your point too, we're talking about AI, you know, AI becoming its own search engine. Everyone was talking about SEO. Now it's like AI SEO. Like, how do we now

Cherryh (04:27)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (04:28)
rank

Brett Linkletter (04:29)
In ChatGBT or Cloud as a restaurant that I don't know, specializes in whatever they specialize in, right? So I guess what are the things that you've learned on on a practical sense that you've seen? Cause again, AI is great, but how are we using it to grow the business? What what are some things you've seen as of recently that's been kind of interesting from your perspective?

Cherryh (04:50)
Well, I just had the CEO of Bonchon on our podcast this week and she was talking about how they're testing and using AI and I think she's got a really smart outlook because she kept saying, you know, it's not a strategy, it's just a toolkit. So they're kinda testing things right now. So she's using it in her supply chain to kinda help with the inventory gaps. So she's

Brett Linkletter (05:08)
Mm.

Cherryh (05:09)
like the way we're measuring OR ROI is we're not running out of product as quickly as we did. So they're using it for things like that. So I think that is one good use case. I mean, everybody's obsessed with

Cherryh (05:20)
like AI robotics and you know the flipping machines, but we're not there yet. People with r smaller restaurant brands, especially fast casuals, can't afford that. So they're using it's how they're using it in the back of the house or with the customer experience with predictive like upselling in their kiosk. Like if you're ordering a a cheeseburger and saying do you know, do you want fries with that instead of having a human do it? So it's just trying to get that check spend up too. So more like back a house I think.

Brett Linkletter (05:45)
Yeah. But what are your what are your what are what are your

Brett Linkletter (05:49)
thoughts on the kiosk versus ordering it at at it with an actual human? What what are your thoughts there and I know it's there's some kind of mixed opinions from what I've read.

Cherryh (05:54)
Yeah, so

Cherryh (05:55)
I love a good kiosk. I think that

Cherryh (05:58)
a good like fast casual restaurant you should have a kiosk it but you should never replace labor for it like it should be an option you should have every option available so if your customer wants to talk to a human great if they want to use a kiosk great if they want to use their phone and order through their phone or the phone call you know or on their app you should be able to give all of those options. So I like personally using the kiosk just because you can customize it and I have Gen Z kids who are obsessed with the kiosk like we go to McDonald's

Brett Linkletter (06:26)
Mm.

Cherryh (06:27)
and Lincoln

Cherryh (06:28)
Wants me to drop him off at in so he can go walk inside of the kiosk and use it and not talk to humans. But he doesn't want to do the drive-thru, he wants to have the power to like press all the buttons and add on the add-ons. And I think that's just gonna get even more popular. But you do need your person there to

Brett Linkletter (06:44)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (06:45)
help like the older people or people who aren't as savvy with it. So all connections in all ways.

Brett Linkletter (06:49)
For sure. It's it's kind of interesting. So, like for

Brett Linkletter (06:54)
for our company, we've been in business for almost twelve years and we've seen the ups and downs of trends and technologies and and all the changes that happened because of COVID and all this and that. And a lot of restaurants with the ups and downs, they've they've tried to adopt new technologies that they thought would be great.

Brett Linkletter (07:13)
Kios is one of those things I wasn't certain about, but honestly, I've seen a lot of brands have major success with them. And I've changed my mind about that. I think that's really cool. to your point, too, having the vast customization and also saving customer profiles, which I've seen some people do,

Cherryh (07:27)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (07:27)
which is a pretty incredible marketing play that you you can have as well. one thing I wanted to ask you about, just speaking on this topic, and I like this topic we're going down, is is is apps. a lot of restaurants ask us if they should have an app or

Brett Linkletter (07:42)
They're excited about an app. and I I have my strong feelings about it, but I wanted I don't it's this about you today. So I want I wanna hear what are your thoughts on on restaurants using apps? 'Cause it seems to be a trend that's just won't die.

Cherryh (07:54)
Like Yeah, I think like five years

Cherryh (07:57)
ago I think like five years ago every restaurant was obsessed, like we have to have an app and

Cherryh (08:02)
We all spent the money, they invested in it, and what we saw was like it was a waste of money for most of them

Brett Linkletter (08:06)
Hmm.

Cherryh (08:07)
because you only have so much real estate on your phone and let's be like if I think about my phone, I think I have two or three restaurant apps and the rest I just use, you know, randomly. So I don't think that the app is where I would invest money unless you're a huge brand like Starbucks. I would, you know, still have a loyalty program and everything like that, but not you don't have to have your own app. Like I am not gonna order, you know

Cherryh (08:32)
from my local taco restaurant through their app. I'm probably still gonna

Brett Linkletter (08:35)
Yeah.

Cherryh (08:35)
call or even go online, but I don't need their app to do that or use Uber Eats or DoorDash. But if you're someone huge, obviously like a McDonalds or something, you know, but these smaller restaurants wasting money on the apps I think is is just a waste to me. What it what you said you have a strong opinion. What is your opinion Okay.

Brett Linkletter (08:51)
I I I completely agree with you.

Brett Linkletter (08:53)
So it was funny is that I went to this conference like two years ago. it was in Texas and I forget the name of which conference it was. We've done so many now. And there was one panel specifically on how every restaurant should have its own app. And of course I'm I'm the asshole in the room that had to ask this question. But I I asked what I asked because there were a couple of owner owners and operators on the panel.

Brett Linkletter (09:21)
And I asked, what percent of your sales are coming through this app that you guys were all preaching about? And the room went silent. Well, no, well, there

Cherryh (09:28)
They didn't know, right? They just assumed.

Brett Linkletter (09:31)
were four restaurant operators. Two of the four didn't know. It's like they've never thought about it. Like, what you've never thought about this? and then the other two laughed and I was like, Well, and then the whole room was kind of like there was like this tension in the room. Like, are they gonna answer the question? I mean, it seems like a pretty decent question to

Brett Linkletter (09:50)
To answer, I mean, what the hell? And

Cherryh (09:52)
Why invest the money if you don't know?

Brett Linkletter (09:54)
it was less than one percent.

Cherryh (09:56)
doesn't surprise me. Like, let's think about it this way.

Cherryh (09:59)
The whole point of this technology is to try to make the customer experience better and faster and less friction. Okay. So let's say

Brett Linkletter (10:04)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cherryh (10:05)
I'm in the car and I want to order Starbucks. Well I have a very like crazy like I have all these different options that I want to do to my Starbucks app. But if I'm driving, I'm not gonna order that through the app because I've got to do like 17 customization things. So in that case, I'm just gonna go wait and go through the drive-thru and do it or I'm gonna call. So you know, I think it's good if you can afford it to have an again having

Cherryh (10:29)
All of the options, but trying to sink all your money into that one thing and letting if you have to pick, there's no way

Brett Linkletter (10:35)
Even but even but in your opinion, even

Brett Linkletter (10:37)
now with these crazy AI tools, if you could instantly create an app, would you still be against it?

Cherryh (10:43)
I mean if if it's cheap, no, of course not. But it has to be cheap and I haven't seen anything terribly cheap yet that that can do that. so

Brett Linkletter (10:51)
Yeah. yeah.

Cherryh (10:55)
I mean I'm thinking like when I'm ordering and when I hear talk to restaurant operators, they just want their customers to be able to order as quick as possible and pay as quick as possible. And if that's an app,

Brett Linkletter (11:03)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (11:04)
great, but that's not always the way. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (11:06)
Yeah. Speaking of loyalty,

Brett Linkletter (11:08)
going back to that, because this is something that it's interesting. A lot of restaurant operators ask us about so our our company is is split between two sides. We have Dyneline, which is our agency front, like service side, like we'll we'll literally work with you. And then we have the the software side, Dishio. and Disho, we have clients that use the technology on their own. but most people they they tend to want to work with us on the service front because

Brett Linkletter (11:36)
Let's just be honest, most restaurant operators are not the best marketers. yeah, there's not well it's it's

Cherryh (11:40)
Don't time for that.

Brett Linkletter (11:43)
it's time, but it's also again lack of experience, right? and so

Cherryh (11:48)
So what's the software actually do?

Brett Linkletter (11:51)
glad you asked. So the software is well, to explain the software, I'll kind of explain how we got here. Basically,

Cherryh (11:58)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (12:00)
my background was in e commerce and I used to sell stuff like sunglasses.

Brett Linkletter (12:06)
women's clothing, gym membership fitness stuff, all all kinds of things online. The beauty of e-commerce is everything's trackable. So if I want to

Cherryh (12:14)
Right.

Brett Linkletter (12:15)
sell a pair of sunglasses online for $100 and I'm an advertiser, I can track the moment someone clicks my ad, gets my website, adds a cart, checkout, gets a thank you page or confirmation page, right? Everything's trackable. And so I can see what's my cost per acquisition, am I profitable? And if I'm profitable, can I scale this budget and get a similar result that makes sense for the business?

Brett Linkletter (12:35)
And so if I could do that in e-com, right? Like we'll keep scaling budgets and keep growing the brand. Problem in the restaurant space is nothing is trackable. Very few. More

Cherryh (12:44)
That's true.

Brett Linkletter (12:44)
and more is becoming, which is thank like thank God, this is incredible, which we'll talk

Cherryh (12:47)
Right.

Brett Linkletter (12:47)
about, I'm sure, today in detail. What DCO does is it integrates into your point of sale, it integrates into your reservation platforms, it insert integrates into your online ordering platforms, it integrates into Meta, Google, TikTok, all these different systems brings them into one place.

Brett Linkletter (13:03)
So now when we run ads or create marketing funnels or any marketing strategy we want to pursue, there's the customer journey is being tracked. And so we can actually see here's what we spent and here's what we made. You get this beautiful dashboard that explains marketing revenue. So marketing revenue is not just total sales, but specific revenue that was attributed from the marketing strategy that we're pursuing or the ad strategy. And so it's all about transparency.

Cherryh (13:29)
Amaz amazing. Yeah, I think

Brett Linkletter (13:34)
so I mean if if I'm being totally honest, we definitely overbuilt. I mean, in in hindsight, I I wish I had built a lot less and just built on one narrow area, which is specializing really in paid ads. And we do we do QSRs quick service and we also do full service. we used to do even fast food. We're doing less and less now at this point. but I love fast casual. We love we love full service. it's just fast food at that at that

Brett Linkletter (14:03)
That price point, it's like if you're getting it someone in the door for let's just say an average cost of acquisition of five bucks and the meal is seven dollars minus food costs, it's it's kind of tough to get an ROI on that, right? But fast casual brands with an average ticket of like twenty five or thirty, or even like more premium thirty-five or forty,

Cherryh (14:20)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (14:21)
my God, it's like it's this is incredible. Like, you know, the high end fast casual is is awesome. but that's what it does. And and you know, it's

Brett Linkletter (14:32)
We live in a world where I think

Brett Linkletter (14:36)
I mean, to do marketing today and not know your ROI in 2026, it's insane.

Cherryh (14:42)
Right. It's insane. But it's hard

Cherryh (14:44)
too. It's like you invest the in like Instagram and the videos and the ads and it's like you know that you're getting impressions but like how are you converting how do you know that is they're getting your ass in a seat? So I totally get that frustration.

Brett Linkletter (14:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (14:58)
Well, so again, speaking of loyalty, a lot of people ask us like what kind of loyalty program can Dishio do or or what do you suggest? what what should we be pursuing? And I also have some strong feelings about loyalty programs, but I again I want to get your opinions. what have you what have you seen working? what have you seen not working? What do you think is a good idea? What do you think is a bad idea that you've seen?

Cherryh (15:23)
So I love to kind of geek out over this because when loyalty first started, it was always like just give a discount, like give a BOGO, or give like a dollar off and which is great, fine. But now I think though we're seeing that restaurants, the smart restaurants are really trying to find loyalty ways that don't cost any money, trying to reward their customers with like maybe it's a sneak peek to the menu or it's an invite to an opening or something like that, which is free but also gives you that FOMO feeling. And then the restaurant isn't

Cherryh (15:53)
Losing any money and the customer feels important because the loyalty is all about making the customer feel important. So they feel important if they get a discount, but they feel a lot more important if they're meeting the chef or if they're getting to try the the LTO a week before everybody else. So

Brett Linkletter (16:07)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (16:07)
we're seeing that. I mean we're seeing like a combination, I think works best. A cu a discount here and there, but they're all about the experiences, so and then you're kind of surprising and delighting them, and it's a mixture.

Brett Linkletter (16:18)
The exclusivity, yeah.

Brett Linkletter (16:21)
what do you

Brett Linkletter (16:23)
What i are there any brands in particular you've seen that are doing this phenomenally?

Brett Linkletter (16:29)
Anyone you can bring up or anyone that you've spoken to on your podcast or

Cherryh (16:33)
Obviously Starbucks is really good because they're not really into discounting. They're into the giving you a sneak peek, I think, you know, so I

Brett Linkletter (16:41)
Yeah.

Cherryh (16:42)
think they do really well. I mean, they're the best use case I can think of for the industry, for any industry.

Brett Linkletter (16:46)
Starbucks I used to so I used to live

Brett Linkletter (16:48)
in California, now I'm in Florida, but when I was I used to live in Venice Beach and there was a Starbucks one block from where I lived, and that is to this day, my whole life, I swear to God, is the only app I've ever downloaded for a restaurant.

Cherryh (17:00)
See, I mean

Cherryh (17:02)
I have it too. I have I have one under one. Yeah, exactly. Yep.

Brett Linkletter (17:04)
It's great. It's like get your latte, walk downstairs, it was there. I mean, don't have to wait in line with

Brett Linkletter (17:09)
everyone there. I mean, it great. So, but I think I think it's so I think we're on a good topic here because I personally, to your point, right, apps most of the time I think just don't work. I think they're unnecessary. Even if it was cheap, I I still don't think I'd preach for someone to do it. but I think more so it really depends on the business, right?

Brett Linkletter (17:32)
If you're a full service fine dining brand, what what isn't what are you gonna do with an app? Right?

Cherryh (17:37)
Yeah.

Cherryh (17:38)
Absolutely not. I mean that just cheap it cheapens it to me. I'm like if I'm going

Brett Linkletter (17:38)
There's it makes zero sense whatsoever. Right?

Cherryh (17:42)
out for like an anniversary dinner, I'm not I'm definitely not going to like use

Brett Linkletter (17:46)
Weird.

Cherryh (17:46)
an app or try to get a discount or any of that. I mean I

Cherryh (17:50)
know I might enroll in their like email thing and I might like I'm a member of Cooper's Hawk Wine Club. So I pay like

Brett Linkletter (17:55)
Hm, love that brand.

Cherryh (17:56)
yeah, I pay like I have been in it for like twenty years. I pay whatever and I get my wine and then every once in a while they send an email about like what's new on the menu and I'll look at that, but I would never have that app on my phone.

Cherryh (18:08)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (18:08)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (18:09)
But I think in in in addition to that, it it it really depends the the restaurant has to be and have product that can be somewhat of a habit. Like that's why it works for Starbucks and I think it wouldn't work for most brands. Even great QSRs that that my wife and I love going to, we're not frequently there you know, every week or twice a week. Exactly, right?

Cherryh (18:23)
Yeah. You're not going three times a week. Yeah, the only time

Cherryh (18:28)
I think especially in in like Gen Z, like my son doesn't have early any apps on his phone. He can't be bothered with it. You know.

Brett Linkletter (18:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So

Brett Linkletter (18:37)
let's let's talk about new acquisition versus loyalty, like we're discussing here. we see a lot of brands and their big focus is like let's just get new customers in the door because once they're in here, they're coming back. We typically though see it's never as good as they think it is. when you look at growing a restaurant and you're talking about new acquisition versus loyalty.

Brett Linkletter (19:02)
How do you approach each of them? What does that look like?

Cherryh (19:04)
So what we've heard what I've heard just from the years of interviewing is that act

Cherryh (19:09)
keep getting a repeat customer is a lot more important than getting the new customer because they're already

Brett Linkletter (19:13)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (19:14)
in your system, they already know the brand. And so you should be spending your I mean you have to spend time on both of them obviously, but if you had to pick it's going back to the your customer that comes in like five or six times a year, getting them to come in even like three more times. Cause they're already

Brett Linkletter (19:28)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (19:28)
you already have them. So you might as well. And you know the way that we're looking at it now is like getting their feedback is getting them to care, getting them to care

Brett Linkletter (19:36)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (19:37)
a little bit more. Like how is your experience?

Cherryh (19:39)
What could we do better? So yeah, that's what I'm seeing now is the trend is really hitting hard on repeat customers.

Brett Linkletter (19:46)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (19:49)
specifically data too. How are you seeing brands keeping track of all this stuff? What what are the things they're looking at? How are how are they utilizing this information?

Cherryh (20:00)
I think they're all confused. There's

Brett Linkletter (20:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cherryh (20:03)
so many there's so many tech companies out there that are promising like, well, you know, we can have all your data in one place, which is awesome and which is what we need to do, but then you still have to have someone to like entr you know, interpret that data and understand that data. So you can collect

Brett Linkletter (20:18)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (20:18)
it, but then what are you gonna do with it? And so I think the Rushdon operators like when we have our events, all the you know, there's a lot of tech companies saying that they can help them, but how? You know, because if you're a if you're

Cherryh (20:30)
a GM you don't really have time to dig into that third party data. So

Brett Linkletter (20:35)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (20:36)
I think that's a struggle still.

Brett Linkletter (20:39)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (20:40)
Yeah. Well, it seems like specifically in the Fax Cagular space, there's this massive trend towards trying to not necessarily get off of the third party apps like Uber Eats

Cherryh (20:47)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (20:48)
and Doordash, but but just put more of their energy towards their own online ordering system. what are your thoughts on this trend? You're all for it, you're against it. how easy is it for these brands to implement? Things like that.

Cherryh (21:02)
I think that third party you have to be on. You should be on all of them because again you have to go to where the customers are. There are some customers that are never gonna order anywhere except for Uber Eats. They're only gonna use someone else is only gonna use DoorDash. So I think you have to be on them, but then you are what we're seeing now is restaurants really trying to convert them so they use the Uber Eats and then instead of just throwing like a flyer in for a menu, they're saying, you know, how do we do? Like

Cherryh (21:29)
trying to get the we'll give you a dollar off or we'll give you this if you tell us what we did and then that's capturing their data too because at the third if they order through third party, the third party has that data. So the Russian has to figure out a way to get that data themselves. So then once they if they use it for a feedback loop or whatever, then they have that data.

Brett Linkletter (21:45)
What but what it what are they what are they

Brett Linkletter (21:47)
using? What are the what are the tools that you're seeing people are using to do that?

Cherryh (21:51)
Well, it's funny you say that. I was just at the Texas Rush on Association and I was chatting with Zach from Ovation. I'm not sure if you know him. Most people Yeah, most people most people know

Brett Linkletter (21:57)
I know Zach. Yeah.

Cherryh (21:59)
it. So he would say you should use ovation. I did like what I I did like one of the tips he was giving. He said something like, Don't just throw your menu into a delivery order from a third party. He's like, that's like asking them out again before they've even gone on the first date. So what you should

Brett Linkletter (22:16)
Yeah yeah.

Cherryh (22:16)
do is in that bag you should put like the QR code that says how did we do

Cherryh (22:20)
We'll give you a dollar

Brett Linkletter (22:21)
Mm.

Cherryh (22:22)
off if you tell us what we did or we'll give you a few drink if you tell us w if we good, bad or whatever. And that's a lot of times he's saying that they're seeing that your people or customers are more apt to fill that out. Other than I mean

Brett Linkletter (22:35)
For sure.

Cherryh (22:36)
because like now we don't even use those paper menus. You just get it and you throw it away.

Brett Linkletter (22:40)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (22:42)
Yeah. Kind of curious, have have you and maybe Zach has mentioned this or maybe it's someone else in the space, we've experimented a little bit on this in the past of getting getting your customers involved, right, in some of the decision making process is is been really cool for us in in some past campaigns we've tried. So for example, getting customers to let's just say, for example, this is I'm coming up on the spot, QR code in the third party delivery bag, right, that says

Cherryh (23:09)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (23:09)
Hey, we're we're gonna be launching some new menu items. We'd love your opinion. Vote on what you'd like: chicken fingers, burger, hot dog, whatever. There's a list of items. Your every vote counts, blah, blah, blah. And also in addition to that, we'll give you $5 off on your next meal.

Cherryh (23:25)
I like that.

Brett Linkletter (23:26)
we've we've seen that and it's interesting because it's like to Zach's point, right? People people want to give their opinion. They want to give their feedback. They want to be heard, right? Yeah, exactly.

Cherryh (23:33)
Right. They want to be asked too, you know.

Brett Linkletter (23:38)
But I I like his idea and I like what we tried in the past because I I agree with him that I think the menu thing is just stupid, doesn't do anything. But I think i if you just give simply a discount, we haven't seen it really work very well at all. It's interesting.

Cherryh (23:52)
Yeah, then you just train

Cherryh (23:53)
people to get a discount, you know? So if if there

Brett Linkletter (23:55)
Yeah.

Cherryh (23:56)
are if if those people are already ordering, then they're already ordering. So

Brett Linkletter (24:01)
Yeah.

Cherryh (24:02)
you know, that I think that goes back to the loyalty thing. We're trying to like why if someone's coming to your restaurant every week, why are we giving discounts to someone who's already coming?

Brett Linkletter (24:10)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (24:11)
Mm-hmm. What are you seeing brands doing on the new acquisition side? Like what is that what are some strategies that you've seen that people are doing right now that is working really well as far as producing specifically new customers?

Cherryh (24:23)
That's a good question. I mean I think

Cherryh (24:27)
I think it always it does still goes back to the influencer marketing with like the Instagram and the TikTok reels and using those in local influencers, like the micro influencers, not like the super famous people, but the people in

Brett Linkletter (24:38)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (24:39)
our local area that have like maybe ten thousand followers. So, you know, partnering with them, I think that gets people in, that gets people excited because they can feel like, Okay, I've just saw this video and this is in my town and I can go have

Brett Linkletter (24:51)
For sure.

Cherryh (24:52)
as opposed to like some super famous person with a million followers. Like the customer

Cherryh (24:57)
Customers don't trust that those people as much anymore, especially the younger people. Yeah, like especially

Brett Linkletter (24:59)
You feel like disconnected. They're almost like too big. Right.

Cherryh (25:02)
the younger people, they're so savvy when it comes to like their bullshit detectors. So like they

Brett Linkletter (25:07)
Yeah.

Cherryh (25:08)
you know, they connect with more people like them on a smaller scale.

Brett Linkletter (25:12)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (25:13)
Yeah, but it's it's it's interesting still. So like well, actually to your point too, I got a friend in in San Francisco, he's launching this reservation app, and the whole premise of it is influencer driven reservations. And so influencers that are part of this app, when they post about a restaurant, he's somehow configured it in a way where they can get credit or or paid when they drive diners to the restaurant. And I

Brett Linkletter (25:38)
I think it's really interesting, but it also the reason I like it is because again, we're all about transparency, right? Like how do we know that working with an influencer actually got someone in store? not to mention

Cherryh (25:49)
Right. Good question.

Brett Linkletter (25:51)
also, and just another thing on influencers in general, I see so many restaurant owners that are working through tons of influencers. And it's so funny to me because they they get they hire 10 influencers, eight out of the 10 don't work, two absolutely crush it.

Brett Linkletter (26:08)
Right. So that would tell me as a marketer, okay, I don't need to work with these other eight people again, but I should I should keep working with these two that got a return, that brought people in, that were mentioned, right? And restaurant owners don't do it. It's like it's like

Cherryh (26:20)
Sure.

Brett Linkletter (26:23)
it's like they have success, they go, Thank you so much. I'm gonna move on to the next guy now. It's like what?

Cherryh (26:27)
Yeah. Also the

Cherryh (26:28)
influencers, like this some of the local insert like it's cheap. Like you might you don't sometimes you don't have to pay them. You just give them free food.

Brett Linkletter (26:35)
I know. It's insane.

Cherryh (26:37)
It's it takes a little bit of work, but it does take a little bit of work, especially

Brett Linkletter (26:39)
The creator economy is interesting.

Cherryh (26:41)
if you're not paying them, 'cause like how are you gonna hold them accountable? But you know, free food is a carrot. I mean, I'll pretty much do anything for free cheese or glass of champagne. So even cheap champagne, I'm fine with it.

Brett Linkletter (26:50)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. What

Brett Linkletter (26:55)
are what are what are a couple of brands you've spoken to recently that you think though are doing something really transformative? Something you haven't seen in all the years of of reporting on this industry?

Cherryh (27:05)
my gosh, putting me on the spot.

Brett Linkletter (27:08)
That's not the most

Brett Linkletter (27:09)
revolutionary ever, but something that just you thought was so interesting and creative.

Cherryh (27:15)
Gosh, let's see. Man, I can't even think of anything on the top of my head. We're gonna have to come back to that one, Brett. You can cut that one

Brett Linkletter (27:21)
No no worries, no worries.

Cherryh (27:24)
out.

Brett Linkletter (27:25)
what do you think though about about paid advertising? Because a lot of brands, again, their their focus on new acquisition is okay, organic influencers. They're still doing a lot of traditional, we see, and we're like anti traditional marketing because I just TV and radio and and and billboards still. And it

Cherryh (27:37)
Like T V and radio you mean? When you say traditional? Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (27:43)
just I mean we had we had a client that was spending, I think it was like thirty five hundred a month on a billboard.

Cherryh (27:50)
Wow.

Brett Linkletter (27:52)
and his sales did not move, but he felt like I have to keep this billboard or they're gonna drop further. See, that's what I I get frustrated when it comes to marketing. Is and I I spoke to another brand as a as a recently a brand based in Chicago. They're doing like, and I don't want to say their name, right? But they're doing like a hundred million a year. And they have,

Cherryh (28:10)
Wow.

Brett Linkletter (28:11)
yeah, they have 20 locations, they're averaging five million per location.

Brett Linkletter (28:16)
They're like a I think most of their locations are are full service, but they have I think five of the twenty are are fast casual and they're doing those kinds of numbers. It's incredible.

Cherryh (28:25)
Wow. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (28:27)
and I asked their marketer, you know, there's their CMO, I said, So you're you're you're you're focused on the marketing. Let's talk about what you're doing. How do we know it's working? How are we proving success? Okay, cool. So where are your current numbers? They told me and I said, and how long we've been here for?

Brett Linkletter (28:44)
Or or is the brand growing? And they said, Well, we've been kind of plateau for the last four years.

Cherryh (28:48)
Hmm.

Brett Linkletter (28:49)
And I asked her, Well, look, I I know you're saying on one side that the marketing is working, but on the other side the sales are not going up. So how do we

Cherryh (28:55)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (28:56)
know this is working? I mean, we long story short, that was her answer.

Cherryh (28:59)
What was the answer?

Brett Linkletter (29:00)
Her answer was, Well, if I wasn't doing this, they'd be going down even further.

Cherryh (29:05)
Yeah, I guess that's kinda like why do I work out and then go go eat like pizza

Brett Linkletter (29:08)
Such a cop out, you know?

Cherryh (29:11)
and then I say, Well, if I didn't work out and I ate this pizza, it'd be even worse. It's kinda silly.

Brett Linkletter (29:16)
Yeah, yeah. It's yes. That's actually the best example I've ever heard. Literally. But this is

Brett Linkletter (29:22)
this is my frustration because so a lot of brands we speak to, by the way, they also say if I'm getting 10% year-ver-year growth, I'm happy. And

Cherryh (29:31)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (29:31)
I say, okay, cool. what we always aim for, generally speaking, typically what we average is about three to four percent compounding growth month over month. If

Cherryh (29:42)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (29:43)
you can get three percent compounding growth, which

Brett Linkletter (29:45)
Is a combination of specifically bringing in new customers while retaining your existing audience. Getting 3% month over month compounding is is not an impossible thing. But it sounds very impossible to a lot of people, a lot of operators, because they've just, they've never, they've never had we call it like a system for growth. They've never, it's always just been random. You know, it's like, let's do a little bit of this, let's do a little bit of that.

Cherryh (30:06)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (30:10)
It's never been a system. and so I'm I'm like

Brett Linkletter (30:14)
You know, you we talked about before the podcast, but you said your ADHD is your superpower. I agree with you. I think it's my superpower too.

Cherryh (30:18)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (30:20)
And I think where it helps is like you have to be so curious. I think when people get content with their situation, they stop being creative, they stop innovating. And I think I just feel like the restaurant space is just I know they're not content from speaking to love operators, but for some reason

Cherryh (30:38)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (30:39)
they're content when it comes to marketing or growth. For some

Cherryh (30:42)
Are they content

Cherryh (30:43)
or they just don't know what the hell to do? I think that is more the the answer

Brett Linkletter (30:46)
Yeah. So

Cherryh (30:47)
there.

Brett Linkletter (30:48)
so so why is that though? What why why is that the case you think? Why why are operators so so lost with such an important aspect of the business?

Cherryh (30:57)
Because it's not as easily measurable when it was T V and radio.

Cherryh (31:01)
You know, you could say the DJ would say, Tell ya g tell them Jinny sent ya or whatever and they could kinda measure it like that and now I mean we don't really do that in marketing. You just kind of put out some funny videos and hope hope it goes viral, but then what? Like it goes viral and

Brett Linkletter (31:16)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (31:16)
then does that mean they're actually coming into your restaurant? And if it does go viral and they are coming into the restaurant, are you staffed for that? Like are you staffed are you operationally gonna be able to handle an extra five hundred customers that day based on that video or are they gonna come in and you're gonna piss everyone

Cherryh (31:30)
Everybody off because you weren't staffed properly and then you're gonna shit the bed. So yeah, it's it's hard.

Brett Linkletter (31:33)
Yep. Mm hmm. Well well

Brett Linkletter (31:38)
but but but you know, you could make the argument again that like we we live in a world now where where everything can be trackable. And that's what we do as a company. I mean that's that's the whole reason we are able to raise money and and and be here.

Cherryh (31:46)
Yeah. I think that's new though.

Cherryh (31:50)
I think that is new. Like it hasn't been trackable up till now. So it's teaching.

Brett Linkletter (31:53)
Yeah. Yeah. So

Brett Linkletter (31:56)
yeah, and that's fair. That's super fair. what about like list generating? you know, everyone always says we should be building an email list or a phone list, or again, some people like they're doing their apps, go figure,

Cherryh (32:09)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (32:09)
right? But what are what are your thoughts on on actual like email marketing for restaurants? I are you seeing brands having major success with it? text marketing is a new trend that's growing rapidly.

Brett Linkletter (32:22)
specifically in the fast casual space, what what are your thoughts there? What brands are you seeing killing it? What what's that look like?

Cherryh (32:28)
Yeah, I think again you have to have it all. text marketing, email marketing, all of it.

Brett Linkletter (32:33)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (32:34)
It's and it is smart to build the list and it is you do need to have that customer data so you can use AI later on to like help drive the perfect offer to them. You know, you're not so you have to have that. I think

Brett Linkletter (32:46)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (32:47)
but again, how do you get them to give you their your info? Especially if you don't have an app, how do you get the to collect so that feedback, you know,

Brett Linkletter (32:53)
Yes.

Cherryh (32:54)
like you said the voting on like what's our new L what's our new LTO, that might be a way. You see

Brett Linkletter (32:58)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (32:59)
them on the table tops like when you're at Chili's or whatever, little ziosk things.

Cherryh (33:04)
you know, the the club. So yeah.

Brett Linkletter (33:07)
You know, you know, there's

Brett Linkletter (33:08)
it's funny, and I that's the last time I'll bring this up, but the the tracking thing. So again, we do this in long time. You know the one brand that we saw that was running ads, and I still to this day am like, God, it was beautiful how they had their whole setup is the Cheesecake Factory.

Cherryh (33:25)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (33:25)
Their team, my god, this was like we spoke to them like six years ago, when to your point

Brett Linkletter (33:32)
We've gotten better over time, but six years ago, like I never heard any brand even think about the importance of tracking an ROI. These guys were ten years ahead of everyone else when it came

Cherryh (33:44)
Awesome.

Brett Linkletter (33:44)
to advertising. Every dollar that they spent was tracked to an ROI.

Cherryh (33:48)
Wow.

Brett Linkletter (33:49)
just want to give them a shout out because I thought that was incredible what they were doing back at back back like six years ago, six or seven years ago.

Cherryh (33:54)
Yeah. When it wasn't on anybody's radar.

Brett Linkletter (33:56)
It's crazy.

Brett Linkletter (33:58)
What are what about some trends in the QSR space you're seeing? I mean, a lot of a lot of QSRs that pop up or fast schedules pop up. They're they're looking at like, okay, hot dog sales are up. Let's let's do a hot dog. Or or this is up. This is trend. I saw I saw a lot of trends towards like protein, right? You see Starbucks

Cherryh (34:15)
yeah.

Brett Linkletter (34:16)
now having these like protein lattes, which I'm a fan of. I think that's cool.

Cherryh (34:20)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (34:21)
but what are what are the what are the other trends specifically in the food space

Cherryh (34:24)
So yeah.

Brett Linkletter (34:24)
that you're seeing?

Cherryh (34:24)
Protein

Cherryh (34:25)
is protein is huge. Like I feel like everybody and their brother has come out with a specific protein menu, you know, like it used

Brett Linkletter (34:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (34:32)
to be like a gluten free menu and now we have a protein menu. GLP one is getting really a lot of traction and s the snacking is getting a lot of traction. So instead of our typical three meals a day, the younger audiences, Gen Z and Millennials especially, are wanting to eat kind of like every three hours. And so there are some brands

Brett Linkletter (34:50)
Mm.

Cherryh (34:50)
that I think are smart coming out with like little like snack wraps, you know, or two

Brett Linkletter (34:54)
Mm.

Cherryh (34:54)
two or

Cherryh (34:54)
three dollars and it's a small portion of something in that because that gets to the snacking trend and the GLP one people who are eating you know less and then the other trend I'm see we're seeing a lot is obviously functional beverages and the dirt and not functional dirty sodas or and the mocktails all that is ta are taking off so all the fast casual

Brett Linkletter (35:12)
True.

Cherryh (35:12)
are now trying to race to find their own dirty soda or their own spin on it or you know maybe it's the protein packed latte or the collagen infused smoothie. So something that it's not just about like the

Cherryh (35:24)
This is a good drink, like what else can I get in there? Like vi can I get vitamins?

Brett Linkletter (35:28)
Yeah.

Cherryh (35:29)
Can I get energy?

Brett Linkletter (35:31)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (35:31)
Let's go here for a little bit because I like I like the where we're going with this too. So it's interesting because so I'm I'm like a a health nut. Like I'm I I I have my little whoop band, I I track my sleep. I'm doing yeah, same same thing, right? Exactly. So and it's and it's funny and my so my my wife is Brazilian and when when we we I actually met her in Brazil and then we came here and now we live in Miami together. But I remember when we first moved here together.

Brett Linkletter (35:59)
And I was like educating her on like, hey, at the market, there's lots of different types of eggs. You know, there's there's the pasturees, there's the the organic, all these different types. You know, because in Brazil, it's like I always joke with her, the eggs are fresh because the feathers are still on them. That's how in Brazil is, right? There's not all this like different variety. But here as

Cherryh (36:16)
Sure. Right, right.

Brett Linkletter (36:18)
Americans, we're like, we gotta get the organic pasturees. This one, not the cage free. That doesn't mean, you it's like all this stuff. And so we're we're it's funny how American culture has become

Brett Linkletter (36:28)
so obsessed with with health. But then again, the restaurant space is now just picking up to it, right? And I'm a huge fan of that. I think that's important. I think that's really cool. But it's always been interesting to me how we're so psycho about looking at the ingredients and making sure everything is healthy in the grocery store. But in a restaurant we'll we'll have whatever we want. And but it seems like that's shifting, right? It seems like now

Brett Linkletter (36:52)
People are more mindful of the ingredients even at the restaurants, and operators are starting to be more transparent with actually what's in their food, right?

Cherryh (36:59)
Yeah.

Cherryh (37:00)
That's true. And like I think I remember I think it was probably ten years ago when the laws passed that you if you had more than twenty locations you had to put the calorie count on the menu.

Brett Linkletter (37:09)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (37:10)
And so like that's kind of just standard now. So I think that's interesting. But I also

Brett Linkletter (37:12)
Yes, true, true.

Cherryh (37:14)
think consumers are liars. They say they want all these healthy options, but then they're gonna go to, you know, wherever and buy what they want anyway. So it's like consumers

Brett Linkletter (37:22)
Yes.

Cherryh (37:23)
report eating healthier than they actually do when you're looking at what is being ordered. I've heard a lot

Brett Linkletter (37:28)
Yeah.

Cherryh (37:28)
of professional operators say that. Like yeah

Cherryh (37:30)
we gotta have a salad for the veto boat or the vegan

Brett Linkletter (37:33)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (37:33)
boat, but w we don't sell very much of it.

Brett Linkletter (37:37)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (37:38)
Well, you're speaking with some really big brands, and there's I I've obviously there's a difference between some of the big chains versus the smaller guys on what they're doing. have you seen any major brands cutting back on on seed oils specifically? Not yet. Okay. Well, that's a bummer.

Cherryh (37:52)
I have not. I have not noticed any of that. Not yet. Have you?

Brett Linkletter (37:58)
I haven't seen like the major, major brands, but there's there's a lot of small chains that are popping up, it seems, that that r like literally right there on the window.

Brett Linkletter (38:06)
For some of these fast casual brands, they they they have like seed oils with an X through it. Like that's major marketing these days.

Cherryh (38:10)
Yes. Okay. Well you're

Cherryh (38:12)
also in f Miami, which is like a very healthier a health conscious location that I'm in the Midwest.

Brett Linkletter (38:15)
Yeah. True. But it's interesting,

Brett Linkletter (38:19)
I will say, because I lived in LA before, and LA is like God, I remember in LA it seemed like it's like one in four restaurants was like vegan at one point.

Cherryh (38:27)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (38:28)
And that trend seems like it's kind of sailed a little bit. I mean I even tried being vegetarian for for a few months and then I even went on to try being vegan. I I was just drinking the Kool-Aid in LA. But I I

Cherryh (38:39)
How did that work out? Did did you

Cherryh (38:42)
were you did you get the nutrition in?

Brett Linkletter (38:42)
I mean, okay, so this is the first

Brett Linkletter (38:43)
thing I'll say. I'll just be totally blunt and honest. for anyone who's vegan or vegetarian, don't be offended. I just this was my experience.

Cherryh (38:49)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (38:51)
But I'm I felt I felt terrible. I not in the sense of like I felt sick or something. I felt fine. But you know what was interesting is I I got very bloated. I like gained a lot of water weight. Yeah,

Cherryh (39:06)
All that process the all the processed stuff.

Brett Linkletter (39:09)
I I felt like so bloated.

Brett Linkletter (39:11)
And then you know, it's it's interesting. Like I felt, I mean this is gonna sound hilarious, but I I literally felt like my testosterone levels were like gone to zero. Like I had no I had I had no like

Cherryh (39:25)
well you didn't have any meat. Must have meat.

Brett Linkletter (39:29)
manual like manly, like masculine feelings. I just felt I felt like a vegetable. Like I had no desire.

Cherryh (39:32)
Yeah. Well it's funny you say that.

Cherryh (39:37)
So my sister and I do we're obsessed with each other, we do everything together and her husband decided to be a vegan and that lasted four weeks. But since they did that, like I bought all this vegan shit. So like

Brett Linkletter (39:47)
Yeah.

Cherryh (39:47)
I w because you we go into each other's houses and then what we found was is like we didn't eat meat, but we ate a lot more junk food like chips and you know, things like that. That were more processed.

Brett Linkletter (39:55)
Hmm. Yes. Cause you still need

Brett Linkletter (40:00)
food, right? It's like what I

Cherryh (40:01)
Yeah, exactly. And I

Cherryh (40:03)
I it's unpopular opinion, but I hate vegetables. I'll I eat them but I don't enjoy eating them. I don't I do not enjoy them at all. Except for salad Duncan Ranch.

Brett Linkletter (40:07)
I hate vegetables. I I'll honestly. Yeah. My my wife and

Brett Linkletter (40:14)
I probably have steak every day. Yeah.

Cherryh (40:16)
Yeah. See? Love it.

Brett Linkletter (40:18)
Steak, steak. Well, and she's Brazilian, so she wants rice and beans with every meal too. So that's a problem for me though. I'm I'm like trying to stay in shape. I'm like, hey babe, I can we cut at least the rice and beans out of the diet? At least a little like a little bit. Like

Cherryh (40:22)
Okay. Yeah, can we get the carbs out at least?

Brett Linkletter (40:31)
But it's what I was saying though is LA versus now Miami. Miami is definitely like up and up on on the health trends and and all this stuff, but it's I felt like LA in particular, there was there was way more healthy options and people were madly obsessed with their health to a fault. I mean, you you look at Erwan grocery store, they're selling like twelve dollar waters that is just rid I mean, come on. They're selling they're selling they're

Cherryh (40:57)
Yeah. Is it really doing that?

Brett Linkletter (40:59)
selling thirty dollar smoothies.

Cherryh (41:01)
That's a it's insane. But also even some of the fast casual bowl brands, the ACI and those smoothies, once you start

Brett Linkletter (41:08)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (41:09)
adding on the collagen boost and the protein boost and like you can

Brett Linkletter (41:12)
It adds a

Cherryh (41:12)
definitely get up to twenty dollars. Easy. And

Brett Linkletter (41:15)
Yeah.

Cherryh (41:15)
then if you're delivering it, holy shit, it's thirty it's definitely thirty dollars with all those fees.

Brett Linkletter (41:19)
Yeah. Yeah. No, but it's

Brett Linkletter (41:23)
it's and I think I think for the major brands, I I I I know, you know, the especially in the fast food space or or the or the fast casual that's like lower price point, you know, it margins are tough and and so some of these health foods are pricier and so it it is tough. And so I I I understand why some of them haven't made the shift because it's it's it's very difficult, but

Cherryh (41:45)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (41:46)
There are

Brett Linkletter (41:46)
some brands. There's a there's a brand down the street from my place here in Miami. It's called Smash Bros. And it's it's a a Smash Burger concept. and they all their marketing is is no seed oils. and their and their fries are cooked in in beef tallow. And

Cherryh (42:03)
Okay, I've heard the

Cherryh (42:04)
I'm glad you said beef tallow. We have seen a lot of that. Like beef

Brett Linkletter (42:07)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (42:08)
tallow cooking the chicken wings and beef tallow.

Brett Linkletter (42:10)
Huge.

Cherryh (42:11)
So it's huge, yeah.

Brett Linkletter (42:12)
There's a there's a grocery store that I just opened up. it's called nude in Miami. And they have this is so incredible. If you're in Miami, you to try this place. So they have it's like an Erwan type concept called nude

Cherryh (42:23)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (42:23)
here in Miami, and they have chicken wings that are that are fried in olive oil. And it

Cherryh (42:29)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (42:30)
is or is it avocado oil? It's one of the two. And it is so incredible. It's pricey, but it's so good. my god.

Brett Linkletter (42:38)
I about it, I'm gonna have to go after this podcast and go get it. Like it's it's just

Cherryh (42:41)
I love it.

Brett Linkletter (42:42)
incredible. but yeah, so I I you know, I I always try on on a podcast to to to leave owners with with some actionable insights. Trends we're seeing more towards health, being more transparent with what's in the ingredients is definitely is definitely massive. Building

Cherryh (42:58)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (42:58)
a list, phone numbers and emails a given, right? If you want to be able to re-engage your customers. What else? What else are we missing that that brands

Brett Linkletter (43:06)
should be doing that they're just not or not caught up to yet in order

Cherryh (43:09)
Mm.

Brett Linkletter (43:10)
that in order to grow the business. What are the things that you're seeing on a regular basis?

Cherryh (43:14)
Well, kind of back to your question about a brand doing some cool shit, I just thought of one. So have you heard

Brett Linkletter (43:19)
Mm.

Cherryh (43:19)
of the brand Fry the Coop out of Chicago? It's a small brand. It's a

Brett Linkletter (43:22)
it sounds oddly familiar, but I don't think I've been.

Cherryh (43:25)
small brand, but they like use the beef tallow for the chicken and it it's really good.

Brett Linkletter (43:32)
Mm.

Cherryh (43:32)
authentic,

Cherryh (43:33)
but their founder is Joe Fontana, and he is just like a brilliant marketer.

Brett Linkletter (43:39)
Amazing.

Cherryh (43:39)
like zillions of followers. Like I would say one thing I would do is follow him because

Brett Linkletter (43:45)
Yeah.

Cherryh (43:45)
he's gets so much engagement. it's it's really interesting. And then also another brand obviously everybody knows now is Dave's Hot Chicken. I mean they were kind of the OG when it came to the user generated content with the sloppy and the the mukbang videos with the slop

Cherryh (44:02)
and the chewing and so

Brett Linkletter (44:04)
Mm.

Cherryh (44:04)
those yeah, those are two brands that I think are really great at s at storytelling which captures the customers. So I think the

Brett Linkletter (44:11)
One one

Cherryh (44:12)
storytelling is what you know is key. You've got to get your story out there.

Brett Linkletter (44:15)
I'm so glad you said this. So

Brett Linkletter (44:17)
we always tell our clients you you gotta get on camera. You gotta get in front of the camera. what what I

Cherryh (44:21)
Yeah. Or somebody

Cherryh (44:22)
has to get in front of the camera. If it's not you, if you don't like doing it, find somebody who does.

Brett Linkletter (44:26)
Yeah. Are you seeing brands doing this though, or is it still

Brett Linkletter (44:29)
something that's still so early on that people are still scared to do it?

Cherryh (44:32)
No, I think we're starting to see it more. I th I think yeah, I definitely think that and I think it's just gonna get better and better. You know people

Brett Linkletter (44:40)
Okay. So yeah, putting it

Cherryh (44:41)
like slutty vegan, you know, Pinky Quill,

Brett Linkletter (44:44)
Yeah.

Cherryh (44:45)
she's like the queen of that. She's you know, she's on Real Housewives now, but like she's old. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (44:49)
nice. I first saw

Brett Linkletter (44:51)
her on you've heard of community texting, I'm sure, right? No? It's a it's

Cherryh (44:55)
So

Brett Linkletter (44:57)
an app. It's it's I guess it's not an app, it's it's a texting platform we've had some clients use in the past. I don't know if it's sp

Cherryh (45:02)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (45:02)
specifically built for restaurants, but we've had some clients using it and they featured her as like one of the top stories. Sluddy that's where I first heard of Sluddy Vegan. And Yep.

Cherryh (45:10)
Her story is amazing and she is like

Cherryh (45:13)
she just leans into it and she went bankrupt and then bought the company back and then went bankrupt again and it's all on social media. It's all on TikTok. It's everything. She puts it all out there and instead of being like people crucifying her for failing or whatever, they love her for being candid and t using it as a teaching moment. She's like

Brett Linkletter (45:31)
Yeah.

Cherryh (45:32)
tons of every big corporation you've ever heard of has gone bankrupt. But

Cherryh (45:38)
it's like has a a bad name, but those big huge brands have you know done chapter eleven to restructure their company and hold on. So why can't I? Why can't a smaller a small owned business do it? And she's people are loving it and she is gr she's just started franchising. So she's she's winning like

Brett Linkletter (45:53)
Wow. Well then

Cherryh (45:55)
and it's because of social media. She has steered the narrative and you know it normally ten years ago you went bankrupt, then that was the end of the world and everybody thought you sucked.

Cherryh (46:05)
But sh not

Brett Linkletter (46:05)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (46:06)
this is she's she's in that storyteller and she is on fire. On fire.

Brett Linkletter (46:08)
That's so cool. Like Well, the name that even

Brett Linkletter (46:12)
though I'm not a vegan fan myself, I know vegans that hear that slutty vegan are like, This is this is my spot. Like I gotta go, you know?

Cherryh (46:16)
Yeah. I'm

Cherryh (46:17)
not a vegan at all, but I love the marketing. I mean you walk in the building

Brett Linkletter (46:20)
Yes.

Cherryh (46:21)
and they're like there's a slut in the building that's what they do, they welcome

Brett Linkletter (46:23)
my god.

Cherryh (46:25)
you. It is I it's it's they're based in Atlanta. It's great. It's hilarious.

Brett Linkletter (46:29)
That's so awesome.

Brett Linkletter (46:31)
let's circle back to like events. Cause you you you're you're in a pretty cool position. You decide some of the biggest names to get to speak at some of these big summits. yeah, you got some power.

Cherryh (46:41)
A power.

Brett Linkletter (46:46)
that is a lot of responsibility. The Spider Man quote, right? It was great power comes great responsibility. How do

Cherryh (46:49)
Yeah. Yes. Exactly.

Brett Linkletter (46:52)
you how do you decide? Because I'm imagining there's probably tons of restaurant CEOs just begging for your attention.

Cherryh (46:58)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (46:58)
to

Brett Linkletter (46:58)
get the mic, how I mean, how how do you dis what's your process to deciding who gets to speak at these big events? What's that look like?

Cherryh (47:07)
So covering the industry every day really helps me w do that. I used to

Brett Linkletter (47:12)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (47:13)
I wasn't in charge of the events for a while at the beginning. I just kinda helped and then when I took over as VP of events, nor a normal person would have like hired someone to take over the day to day news and interactions for fast casual, but I did not want to do that because my end to get those speakers to say yes was because I'm covering them, I'm writing about them.

Brett Linkletter (47:34)
Mm.

Cherryh (47:35)
I know what's going on in the industry and it just g gives me that look every day. You know, I didn't wanna give up that

Cherryh (47:45)
editorship because then I would not have my eye on everything all the time. So that really helps.

Brett Linkletter (47:48)
For sure.

Cherryh (47:49)
So a lot of times it's just I'm writing news every day and I'm like, well that's a cool story or I want to interview them. So then I'm I email them and ask them to speak. And what is cool about the fast casual industry is that it is a huge it sounds cheesy, but it is a huge family and even though they're all competing, they all are help they all want to help each other. So we have like the Fast Casual Executive Summit coming up in October in Arlington. And

Brett Linkletter (48:10)
Wow. Yep.

Cherryh (48:12)
all of these speakers we don't pay them. They come

Cherryh (48:15)
and talk and give their expertise for free. We don't have the budget to pay speakers.

Brett Linkletter (48:19)
Wow.

Cherryh (48:19)
So the restaurant operators come, they pay for their own travel, you know, it's just and they are just there to help one another. It is I

Brett Linkletter (48:26)
Mm.

Cherryh (48:26)
always say it's a family reunion every time we're back together. And then we have the vendors in the same way. Like they a lot of them are are family too where they come every time and w they're meeting each other and and redoing deals and it's just it's just a really cool thing to see. You guys have to come

Brett Linkletter (48:42)
We gotta we gotta come out, Arlington.

Cherryh (48:45)
It Arlington Act

Brett Linkletter (48:45)
We gotta come.

Cherryh (48:46)
four through the sixth and then we have the restaurant catering workshop that starts the sixth and the seventh. So as soon as we wrap with the rush the franchise or sorry, the fast casual summit, we go into the catering workshop. So it's really cool. it's just we have the perfect pitch where we we've been doing this for eleven years. It's like our nice version of Shark Tank where we

Brett Linkletter (49:07)
Mm.

Cherryh (49:08)
let restaurants pitch and we pick a winner and that's really cool and we have just a lot of

Cherryh (49:15)
networking opportunities and it's

Brett Linkletter (49:17)
cool.

Cherryh (49:18)
yeah so it's we call ourselves the anti-trade show this is our 21st year doing doing the fast casual executive summit so we're really are like the first company to start doing things that weren't trade shows and the whole point is to like if you're an outgoing person you can literally make a connection with every single with all four hundred people in that two and a half. Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (49:36)
Wow. I would love to come out. I mean, it's it's

Brett Linkletter (49:39)
one of those things I I say we've we've done a number of these events, but truthfully, over over almost twelve years, we haven't done as much as I guess you'd imagine. I mean, we we did NRA last year for the first time. and and I'll be honest, NRA was a great experience. We spent so much money and as far as the ROI, for us as like a vendor, it wasn't it wasn't a good yeah.

Cherryh (50:02)
We've heard that a lot. I think

Cherryh (50:04)
that there's a place for huge trade shows. NRA is definitely, you know, if you can afford it, you definitely should be at it, especially as a vendor. But especially

Brett Linkletter (50:12)
Yeah.

Cherryh (50:13)
as a vendor going to these smaller events where like this event, you have to be a C level or a VP brush on operator to attend or be a paying sponsor. So we just

Brett Linkletter (50:22)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (50:23)
so you're you're only in the room with two hundred and fifty people, but they're all legit leads that can say yes to you. Or no. You know?

Brett Linkletter (50:29)
That's huge. I like that way more.

Cherryh (50:31)
Yeah. So

Cherryh (50:32)
So you might not get sixty thousand people but you're also not getting like the person off the street that is coming in for the free samples.

Brett Linkletter (50:40)
Which is most people, honestly, that's how I felt.

Brett Linkletter (50:43)
which was which was really tough. I'm super curious this catering workshop too. What it what what does that look like? It's a few days on all catering, essentially.

Cherryh (50:51)
Yeah, so this

Cherryh (50:52)
is our third year doing that. What we've decided what we have found, what we're kind of looking into, is doing even smaller versions of the summits.

Brett Linkletter (50:58)
Mm.

Cherryh (50:59)
So we have the restaurant marketing workshop, the restaurant catering workshop, and they're even smaller. It's a hundred a hundred and fifty people and this is geared toward actual people doing the catering.

Cherryh (51:10)
in the restaurant. So it's not just for the CEO, it's for like that catering director or that catering manager. And we're doing we partnered with Kelly Grogren from Crumbs, who is brilliant by the way. And it's

Brett Linkletter (51:21)
Mm.

Cherryh (51:22)
basically tips and tricks, playbooks. So you leave that event and you're like, I have I'm gonna do these eight things to grow my catering business. Whether it's we're just starting our catering business or we need to elevate it. And you've got

Brett Linkletter (51:34)
What it what are

Brett Linkletter (51:36)
what are give me like a sneak peek. If I'm like a restaurant operator and I'm like, hey, this sounds interesting. What what are some like ideas that I can I can take from this?

Cherryh (51:44)
Okay, so

Brett Linkletter (51:46)
catering is a freaking awesome revenue driver. It's so profitable too, obviously.

Cherryh (51:49)
It is. And it's it's a

Cherryh (51:51)
new it's r it's a relatively new revenue stream for restaurants. They used to kind of think about it as just like, yeah, we also have catering. So what we're seeing now,

Brett Linkletter (51:59)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (52:00)
what we're what Kelly has been trying to teach the attendees is that it has to have its own team. You need to have a point person for catering. You can't have the same menu that you do for your regular menu because not everything travels well. So like if you don't have the packaging to travel for fries, don't put fries on your catering menu because

Cherryh (52:19)
you're just gonna piss people off and they're not gonna like it and they're not gonna come back. So it's like dialing in on what works for catering. and it's gotten really popular. And I thought it was crazy this year Chipotle launched a catering thing of it's like a build my meal for four and they hadn't had it before. I'm like seriously Chipotle didn't have like a dedicated catering situation until now. So restaurants are really starting to s to invest specifically into catering and

Brett Linkletter (52:48)
Yeah.

Cherryh (52:48)
they're seeing

Cherryh (52:49)
like huge, huge growth there. And so we're gonna talk

Brett Linkletter (52:53)
I mean, yeah, I I

Cherryh (52:55)
about all of that, you know, building a catering sales machine or you know, what the data says about the future of catering and

Brett Linkletter (53:02)
What are what are this yeah, this is this is an area even

Brett Linkletter (53:05)
for us as a company that we a lot of our clients, just like you said, it's kind of like an afterthought.

Cherryh (53:10)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (53:10)
but then it's like you you get one big catering order of like two, three thousand in payouts. I mean, it's like that is incredible. You get a few of those a month, you you've just grown the business by ten percent if you're doing a

Cherryh (53:20)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (53:20)
hundredk a month.

Cherryh (53:21)
Exactly

Cherryh (53:21)
what that we're talking about at this workshop, what we've been talking about for the last couple of years, and people are saying that if I can get two big orders a month, it just moves the needle. But you have to involve

Brett Linkletter (53:31)
It's crazy.

Cherryh (53:32)
it. You can't just be like, yeah, we have catering. You have to like have it everywhere. Like a lot of the restaurants have like when you walk into the restaurant, they'll have like a little table set up. It's like we cater and it's like it shows like the packages of what they have, like the actual cups and you know what you can get. And it's like Q.

Cherryh (53:51)
QR

Cherryh (53:51)
code and then it's all in the everywhere, the marketing on the tables, on the website, like you have to invest time and money into it.

Brett Linkletter (54:00)
Yeah. It's

Brett Linkletter (54:01)
it's funny 'cause so our the building I live at here in Miami, they just were redoing the pool at our building and the pool was like closed for like a year and everyone was all bummed out and da da da. And I was literally and it's so funny the timing of this podcast, like last week I was like telling some of my good friends that the pool is finally done. I'd love to have a barbecue. And one of my friends was just like, Why don't you just like get catering from some great restaurant? And I was like, Who does good catering? And I literally couldn't think of one.

Cherryh (54:30)
Well now we all are Yeah, yeah. And that so

Brett Linkletter (54:30)
And I know they all do it, but nothing came top of mind, you know? And I was like

Cherryh (54:35)
and that is there is a perfect time right now for someone to come out and like win that. And it doesn't even have to

Brett Linkletter (54:41)
Exactly.

Cherryh (54:41)
be nationally, it can be regionally, right? Like you know, the go to in each region.

Brett Linkletter (54:44)
Yeah. This is I'm gonna

Brett Linkletter (54:47)
I'm gonna put this on my calendar 'cause I think the the summit, both of these summits I think would be awesome for us to come out too.

Cherryh (54:52)
We would love to have you. the

Cherryh (54:54)
other thing about catering that we've kind of predicted last year is that, you know, in the C suite there's always like a chief revenues revenue officer, a chief marketing officer. We are going to have a chief catering officer eventually. Like it's going

Brett Linkletter (55:06)
Yeah.

Cherryh (55:07)
to be that important because you can make so much money off of it if you do it right.

Brett Linkletter (55:11)
It's huge.

Brett Linkletter (55:12)
So w let's talk let's talk a little bit deeper on this too. So are are there are there software tools people are using or that you guys you guys recommend specifically on catering?

Cherryh (55:22)
Yeah, I mean

Cherryh (55:23)
I'm not gonna recommend anything because I am a journalist and have to be objective, but all of you will all you will meet

Brett Linkletter (55:28)
Yes, yes, yes. Okay, well tell me what they do at least. Tell me what what's the process look like?

Cherryh (55:32)
all of these vendors at the restaurant catering workshop. I mean, we have delivered technologies, we have monkey media software, like they

Brett Linkletter (55:39)
Hmm.

Cherryh (55:39)
all kind of compete with Easy Cater and delivered. It's all about trying to

Cherryh (55:44)
make the ordering process a lot quicker and easier. So what Shipley Donuts is doing something really cool. I just used them we we did a couple stories with them so I was looking at their tool. They have where you can go on their website and say I want to do a breakfast for twenty people and then it will tell you like exactly what you need. Like how many kilotchis you need, how many donuts you need and then you can put like gluten free or whatever. So it's like making the catering ordering so easy because office managers, you know, you're trying to

Cherryh (56:14)
cater for a whole office or whatever it's kind of stressful. So you can just

Brett Linkletter (56:17)
Yeah.

Cherryh (56:17)
put that in there. So I think that is one of the the cool things that is is new.

Brett Linkletter (56:22)
So cool.

Cherryh (56:22)
Yeah. That they're using.

Brett Linkletter (56:25)
Amazing.

Brett Linkletter (56:26)
So just quick pitch if if I'm I'm a let's just say I'm a I'm a single unit operator or maybe I a few locations,

Cherryh (56:33)
Mm-hmm.

Brett Linkletter (56:34)
why should I be getting on a plane to Arlington this year for these events?

Cherryh (56:37)
So like I said, these

Cherryh (56:39)
are the cream of the crap restaurant executives, but they are

Brett Linkletter (56:42)
Yeah.

Cherryh (56:42)
not assholes. They are not assholes. They are there to help. They are telling you and I love it when we get them on stage and we're like, what did you mess up and what did you learn? They are happy to tell you how to what they did wrong and what they did right. like the relationships you meet there, like you find mentors and like again you will s see each other at all the events over and over and over. And

Brett Linkletter (57:03)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (57:03)
you just learn so much from each other and the vendors too. You just learn so much from the vendors also.

Cherryh (57:09)
I they're they're they're there to pitch you, right? Restaurant operators, they want you to buy their product, but they're they're legit. We're not having

Brett Linkletter (57:16)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (57:17)
vendors that suck. Like they're there to help you. You you need what they're selling is what I'm saying. Like, you know you know what I mean? Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (57:23)
Yeah. No, this is this is really cool. I'm gonna

Brett Linkletter (57:26)
I'm gonna seriously t tell our head of events that w this is something that we wanna do. This is awesome. I need the information for this podcast.

Cherryh (57:30)
Yes, I'll give you a discount. Absolutely.

Brett Linkletter (57:35)
I read somewhere that you said you said somewhere you look where the industry narrative diverges from operational reality. where where do you feel like the biggest gap is right now?

Brett Linkletter (57:47)
In our space.

Cherryh (57:49)
definitely technology and AI and what it says it's going to do and what it actually does. So

Brett Linkletter (57:53)
Mm.

Cherryh (57:55)
That's an easy one. I mean, also we all think is in the media helps too that customers want everything to be tech savvy. They don't give a shit. They want their orders quickly. So if you're using tech to give them their orders accurately and quickly, then use the tech. But nobody's like,

Brett Linkletter (58:10)
Yeah.

Cherryh (58:11)
I went to this restaurant because they had a really cool POS system. No. They're going for the food. The food has to be delicious. It has to be

Brett Linkletter (58:17)
Yeah.

Cherryh (58:18)
great. But you're trying to get it into their hands as quickly as possible.

Brett Linkletter (58:22)
A hundred percent.

Brett Linkletter (58:24)
Are there are there speaking of point of sales, is there anything standout that you're seeing point of sale systems do like this year that they weren't doing a few years ago?

Cherryh (58:31)
They all say they're trying to integrate everything. And like I haven't

Brett Linkletter (58:34)
Yeah.

Cherryh (58:34)
seen any like you know, I haven't sat down with these guys to like look at to see if if we can prove it, but they're all like they all know that the operators are sick of trying to handle six different platforms. So they're all trying to integrate. Right. Right. So they're trying to integrate. So the the company

Brett Linkletter (58:47)
Hundred percent. Like ten different iPads in the business. my God. Yeah. Well it's it's

Cherryh (58:52)
that actually pulls that off is gonna win.

Brett Linkletter (58:55)
Well that's that's

Brett Linkletter (58:56)
the thing, is like so people ask us that are like using toast, for example. They're like, Well, toast has toast marketing. Why should we use Dishio? And I was like, How's toast marketing working for you? And they're like, Well,

Cherryh (59:02)
Mm-hmm. Right. Okay.

Brett Linkletter (59:06)
I yeah, I guess it's not really working. It's it's very simple.

Cherryh (59:09)
Can you integrate with

Cherryh (59:10)
toast though? 'Cause it's like everything needs to integrate. So like toast

Brett Linkletter (59:13)
Yeah.

Cherryh (59:14)
will integrate with other things, I guess. So it's like Do they talk to each other? I don't know.

Brett Linkletter (59:17)
Well, it's the they so we so for

Brett Linkletter (59:20)
for context, we we love t brands that are using toast. I think it's an awesome

Cherryh (59:23)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (59:24)
point of sale. but it it is difficult to integrate with them, extremely. So we have, for example, we have like we can pull information out of toast, like read access, but we can't push information back in. And so the tough part for us is like we have like a coupon system within our platform, but

Brett Linkletter (59:43)
it can't it doesn't seamlessly integrate into toes. So that that can be a problem for brands that like at scale, especially in the fast casual space, customers coming in and have this coupon it and it's it's a little can it can be clunky, right? Like without that seamless integration,

Cherryh (59:56)
As

Cherryh (59:57)
a vendor, do you think that people aren't allowing integration 'cause they're trying to protect their product and they don't want you to use other products? Just curious.

Brett Linkletter (01:00:06)
so

Brett Linkletter (01:00:08)
I have heard everything under the sun as to why.

Cherryh (01:00:10)
Yeah. Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:00:12)
my personal theory is that, and look, to to give to give Toast credit, like amazing company, amazing product, like nothing bad to say. Yeah,

Cherryh (01:00:19)
Yeah, love them. We have a ton of readers and them. I think they're great.

Brett Linkletter (01:00:24)
and if I was in their shoes, maybe I would be also a little more careful who I integrate with. But at the same time, there's there's positives and negatives. So, for example, if they were to open up

Brett Linkletter (01:00:36)
Floodgates of API integrations is let anyone integrate, there'd be a lot of benefits. But I think in their defense, the reason they don't is you know, they are building more tools to be able to do more. And

Cherryh (01:00:49)
Right.

Brett Linkletter (01:00:50)
they have kind of like a you know, because they have this walled kind of garden around what they do, they can they can control it a little bit more, right? So I I think it's just a business move that they've decided to make. And and look, as a vendor that's not toast trying to integrate.

Brett Linkletter (01:01:04)
It's frustrating, but I also see their point of view. You see what I'm saying? So,

Cherryh (01:01:07)
Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:01:10)
but yeah, it's it is it is it is one of those things that you know, as as a tech guy in the software space, restaurant space, if you do have a toast integration, that's like the golden ticket. It it really, really is.

Cherryh (01:01:24)
Yeah. Well and I think a lot of our

Cherryh (01:01:26)
a lot of the people that come the restaurant people that come to our events they're like, I'm just getting pitched by all these like tuck guys and I just want one thing. Can just one platform do everything? They would like

Brett Linkletter (01:01:35)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:01:36)
one platform to do it all. And I don't know if that's ever gonna be possible but that to me would be

Brett Linkletter (01:01:38)
Yeah. So wait what but what are

Brett Linkletter (01:01:41)
the things that you s what what when they say do it all, like what are the top three things that they they want to be able to do?

Cherryh (01:01:47)
They want the

Cherryh (01:01:48)
they want you to be able to pay, they wanna collect the data, they want you to do the marketing, they want everything to be at the same time.

Brett Linkletter (01:01:56)
So and and the restaurants

Brett Linkletter (01:01:57)
they're literally mentioning data. Like they they they see the importance of that is what you're saying.

Cherryh (01:02:00)
You're starting too,

Cherryh (01:02:01)
yes. We I mean, gee, the last couple of years, every summit we've had has at least one or two sessions dedicated to d customer data collection. How do we get the

Brett Linkletter (01:02:10)
Really?

Cherryh (01:02:11)
data? Not only how do we get the data, but then how do we use it? How do we make it easy? So like some of the companies are like, We got these dashboards and it'll tell you A, B, and C and so that's what we need.

Brett Linkletter (01:02:19)
Mm-hmm. So, okay,

Brett Linkletter (01:02:22)
so now this is where can get really nerdy and geeky with you.

Cherryh (01:02:25)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:02:26)
even though I don't look like a nerd, I I I swear I am deep an ADHD nerd right here. So

Cherryh (01:02:31)
Yeah, I lied.

Brett Linkletter (01:02:33)
data, and it's funny, we're so obsessed with data. And and at NRA, by the way, we had a bunch of hats that said data daddy and all these data funny like things we created. Yeah, they were it were a hit. Everybody wanted them.

Cherryh (01:02:44)
I love that. I love it. I

Cherryh (01:02:48)
bet.

Brett Linkletter (01:02:48)
But it's interesting to me because we have changed our entire sales pitch. And I guess maybe I'm just asking you for advice now this point. we have we have had our for the last year, we were pitching data and the importance of data, and we were all about pitching, pitching data, data, data. And it's just it's it felt like nobody cared what we were preaching about. Maybe now the tables have turned and it's changed and people are now adopting it, but

Cherryh (01:03:17)
I

Cherryh (01:03:17)
think I think also you gotta dumb it down too because

Brett Linkletter (01:03:20)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:03:20)
I mean I'm not that much of a nerd. I'm a little bit of a nerd, but I think Rush on operators, they need to have a specific example. That's one thing that annoys me as a reporter is I want a specific example. So like if I'm going to use this technology, I want you to give me like I'm going to send out this

Cherryh (01:03:41)
Email and I'm gonna collect this data and then what am I gonna do with that data? Am I going to use that data to create an email campaign, a text campaign? Like what am I using it for? And how am

Brett Linkletter (01:03:50)
Mm.

Cherryh (01:03:51)
I gonna get how am I gonna turn that into a sale? Like that's all we wanna that's

Brett Linkletter (01:03:56)
I see what you're saying.

Cherryh (01:03:57)
all I wanna know. Like dumb it down. Not to be not

Brett Linkletter (01:04:00)
Yes, yes. Well

Cherryh (01:04:02)
to say that operators aren't smart, they are very smart, but they're r they're doing a million different things and they care about getting asses and stuff.

Brett Linkletter (01:04:08)
Yeah, they're just they're just

Brett Linkletter (01:04:09)
not specialized in this area. Just how I Yeah. Just how

Cherryh (01:04:11)
That's why they need you.

Brett Linkletter (01:04:13)
if you put me in the back of house of a restaurant, I'm like, I don't what I'm doing, right? It's just not my area of expertise. Same thing.

Cherryh (01:04:16)
Right. Exactly. Right.

Brett Linkletter (01:04:19)
So but but they look at data as importance because like what what is it? Like they want data because they think they can get higher retention, more customer acquisition, better margins. What

Cherryh (01:04:31)
Yes. They can they can get

Cherryh (01:04:34)
higher yeah, higher retention, get the correct offer in front of the guest that is gonna make the guest come order from them.

Brett Linkletter (01:04:43)
Okay.

Cherryh (01:04:43)
What does it take to get them to come in and to you have to know who they are, their age, what they ordered last time, where they live, their

Brett Linkletter (01:04:50)
Mm.

Cherryh (01:04:51)
income, like you need all that to be able to

Brett Linkletter (01:04:54)
Okay.

Cherryh (01:04:54)
a personalized offer.

Brett Linkletter (01:04:57)
So this is this is

Brett Linkletter (01:04:58)
this is what I wanted to hear and this is this is absolutely awesome because that means this this is they are seeing the importance specifically on this and really it sounds like they're wanting to be more marketers, which is good for us. I love this. This this is great.

Cherryh (01:05:10)
Yes. But I also think they want

Cherryh (01:05:12)
to be done for them. Like they don't need to see how the sausage is made sometimes. Like make it work.

Brett Linkletter (01:05:16)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:05:18)
So kind of curious to your thoughts on this too, because there's this wave happening specifically in in in in in my field where and even it was a it was a problem when we were raising money, was people look at pure SaaS businesses, software businesses as businesses that will be disrupted because of AI, right? And there's a lot of truth to that, right? Some businesses you can now replicate with Claude Code or Chat GPT codecs very quickly, right?

Brett Linkletter (01:05:45)
There's a lot that you definitely can't though. We're just not even close to being there. But

Cherryh (01:05:48)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:05:49)
you said, you know, the rush owners, maybe they they don't want another tool. They just want the solution and they want it done for them. where we've kind of tried and and we have thrived in this in this sense of we are a tech enabled agency, meaning we will give you someone on our team that you will work with that will help do everything. But because we have the technology component, we're able to have

Brett Linkletter (01:06:14)
way more restaurants work with one individual than could be done before, right?

Cherryh (01:06:17)
Okay, that makes sense.

Brett Linkletter (01:06:19)
so I guess what you're saying is is there's not quite an appetite yet in the restaurant space for people to just get in there and do this on their own still. They still want that extra help, is is what you're saying.

Cherryh (01:06:28)
I think it depends.

Cherryh (01:06:30)
I think it depends. Some of like the newer brands, you know, who have like chief technology officers and stuff who understand it, they like doing that. But the smaller brands,

Brett Linkletter (01:06:37)
Mm.

Cherryh (01:06:39)
I mean, like if I were to open a restaurant, I would not want to nerd out all day over the data. I would tell I would want to say, Brett, I want to get you know, ten percent more growth and whatever you gotta do, I want you to do it. And not bother me with it. You know?

Brett Linkletter (01:06:55)
Yeah. Yeah. No, a hundred

Brett Linkletter (01:06:58)
a hundred percent. It's interesting. And I I I always like to ask this because it's like it's it's not even just like a trend thing. I think it's just an industry thing where I don't know if restaurant owners again, to your point, so it depends on the person, but especially the major brands. I mean, I I've seen some very high level CMOs that are still doing some very basic stuff that is scary. That I won't name names because I won't get into that. Of course not.

Cherryh (01:07:22)
Well, I also think it's

Cherryh (01:07:23)
everything has changed so quickly and sometimes you don't know what you don't know and you don't wanna admit that you might not understand something. Like I always ask the dumb questions, like I'm fine, you know, I wanna know how it works. But I think

Brett Linkletter (01:07:35)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:07:36)
sometimes that's it can be intimidating to kind of if you especially if you've been a CMO a long time and everything has changed all of a sudden. It's like, God, do I gotta go back and take classes or what? Like, what are we doing?

Brett Linkletter (01:07:49)
Yep.

Brett Linkletter (01:07:50)
I wanted to pull a quote I found from you, another one that says, Your advice to your younger self is negotiate like a man. tell tell me about that. I want to get your your thoughts on this.

Cherryh (01:07:57)
Absolutely.

Cherryh (01:08:02)
I think that

Cherryh (01:08:03)
I mean, it's no secret. Women egg girls have been especially I'm forty six, so especially my age and and older, we were raised to be people pleasers and to say please and thank you and to offer to help. We're always supposed to help and offer a helping hand. we're not used to asking for what we want. We feel guilty for asking for more money. It's like

Brett Linkletter (01:08:26)
Mm.

Cherryh (01:08:26)
you have to know your worth and it's I'm s I still am not that good at it. Like I'm trying, like I'm trying really hard to say, you know

Cherryh (01:08:33)
I'm worth that. And so all the worst they can say is no. My mom always taught me that. The worst that you can hear is no. So you might as well just ask and tell them what you want. And women don't do that. I mean, I I have hired several people. And just from the people that I have hired, men always ask for more and they're upfront about it. And women are always like,

Brett Linkletter (01:08:53)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:08:53)
well, if it's not too much, I think, you know, I made this and I would really like a little bit more, but I understand it's always just like, you know, and like no, like own it.

Cherryh (01:09:04)
own how

Brett Linkletter (01:09:04)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:09:04)
the worth, you know what you bring to the table. Sometimes we just need to be reminded of that.

Brett Linkletter (01:09:10)
I love that.

Brett Linkletter (01:09:11)
That reminds I needed that advice actually today as a man because literally literally I just got told from someone today, I'm not gonna name their the brand, but they to work with us, we have like we call it our foundation sprint. The first month is like we have to build up this marketing engine. And a lot

Cherryh (01:09:26)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:09:26)
of people look at it as like, that's just like your onboarding or activation. We don't we don't want to pay for that. And I was like, Well, someone's gotta do the job and and we're not doing this for free, right? I mean, that's how

Brett Linkletter (01:09:37)
Capitalism works, you pay me to do something for you. I it's not free handouts. And I'm

Cherryh (01:09:38)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:09:43)
I'm working with this CMO on on like finalizing this deal. I was actually just doing this before this podcast. And she goes, our CEO said we'll move forward, but we're not paying for this onboarding. And I was

Cherryh (01:09:53)
god.

Brett Linkletter (01:09:54)
like, guys, like why

Cherryh (01:09:56)
That's part of it. That's part of the proposal. Like you can't do

Brett Linkletter (01:09:59)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:09:59)
that without that part.

Brett Linkletter (01:10:01)
It's it's just insane. Like I'm like, what do you mean you're just like, No, I I well I'm not gonna give it to you for free.

Cherryh (01:10:07)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:10:07)
so it's just it happens all the time.

Cherryh (01:10:10)
But it's

Cherryh (01:10:10)
sometimes we get so caught up in closing the deal that we fuck ourselves because part of my language.

Brett Linkletter (01:10:15)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:10:16)
Like so with the events that I do

Cherryh (01:10:18)
It's very cheap for a restaurant operator to attend and we do that because we know that restaurant operators don't have a ton of money. So we make our profit off of vendors who pay to like, you know, attend and run a session or moderate a session or whatever. But I have like so many people going, well, I'm an expert in this, so you should let me speak for free and I'm like, the speaking things for free are for the restaurant operators. You have to pay. Like you wanna be in front of the audience. You're literally pitching your product to three hundred C level executives. Like I'm not running a free

Cherryh (01:10:48)
company either. So you know

Brett Linkletter (01:10:50)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Cherryh (01:10:51)
but then also like we also really love and understand that startups are very important. And so we we know we try to work with them and give them, you know, a a cheaper rate to come because startups are usually where like the really cool shit is happening and we understand balance for sure.

Brett Linkletter (01:11:06)
Yeah, that's where innovation is happening for sure. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:11:10)
So sure, I wanted to just go through like a quick fire round with you, like just quick answers on this.

Cherryh (01:11:16)
Yeah. Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:11:18)
don't think too hard about it. but I want to get like your initial reaction. So number one is is is in your opinion the best city to host a conference. What do you think?

Cherryh (01:11:31)
I can't go fast because this is my bread and butter. So I love

Brett Linkletter (01:11:34)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:11:35)
I do not like to host conferences in what you would say top tier cities because it's

Brett Linkletter (01:11:39)
Mm.

Cherryh (01:11:40)
expensive and crazy. So we like to do them in like secondary. So like we Nashville, Nashville's really good. Austin,

Brett Linkletter (01:11:47)
Natural's an awesome market.

Cherryh (01:11:48)
Kansas City, we're doing Baltimore, kind of like the second tier, not totally so I mean we do some,

Brett Linkletter (01:11:55)
I like that.

Cherryh (01:11:56)
we're doing Miami in December, but you know,

Brett Linkletter (01:11:58)
Let's go.

Cherryh (01:11:59)
there's yeah, there's some there's some cool things happening.

Cherryh (01:12:01)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:12:05)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:12:07)
okay. best city to start a restaurant right now.

Cherryh (01:12:11)
Mm. Kansas City, baby. All the way. Prices are

Brett Linkletter (01:12:14)
Let's go. Let's go.

Cherryh (01:12:15)
the price is right. I mean, everything's expensive, but the the Midwest people are I mean, all the way. I'm gonna do it there in a heartbeat.

Brett Linkletter (01:12:23)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:12:24)
how much would a loyalty program have to pay you to get your email instead of your phone number?

Cherryh (01:12:30)
nothing. They would give me something for free, like a free hot dog. Like I am cheap. Like I know everybody in the world already has my data, so go for it. I don't care.

Brett Linkletter (01:12:38)
Yeah. Yeah. most

Brett Linkletter (01:12:41)
overhyped menu trend right now. One answer.

Cherryh (01:12:45)
Pumpkin spice, go away. I'm sick of it. Twenty years later

Brett Linkletter (01:12:48)
my god. Is that still happening?

Cherryh (01:12:50)
Yes, every and it gets earlier and earlier and earlier. It used to be like September, October. No, now it's like they're racing to start in the beginning of August. And it's like who Starbucks, Duncan, all of them, who's gonna be first? And I have to write a freaking story about pumpkin spice every year and I I'm running out of angles. Yeah, like get yeah, take your basic bitch, do it somewhere else. Do something else.

Brett Linkletter (01:13:07)
You're like, please no. Okay. Get out. Get out. Yeah. What's

Brett Linkletter (01:13:14)
one fast casual brand that you'd go all in on with your own savings? Tiki Taco, nice. I gotta check these guys out. Okay.

Cherryh (01:13:19)
Tiki Taco. Tiki Taco. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:13:24)
one menu item, every fast casual brand should retire tomorrow.

Cherryh (01:13:29)
Well besides pumpkin spice.

Brett Linkletter (01:13:31)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:13:32)
actually they can't retire it because they would lose a shit ton of money 'cause people love it. Wonder Man. I don't know. That's I can't I can't. What would you say?

Brett Linkletter (01:13:45)
I would just I would, I mean, I'm so anti-seed oils. I wish they could just stop cooking in seed oils. Like that's and I'd be happy. Just no more seed oils, you're killing us. Yeah, literally, it's insane.

Cherryh (01:13:50)
It's gonna be the hill that you die on, or you don't die once you don't eat the seedle.

Brett Linkletter (01:13:57)
Seed oils was never something that humans ever ate 100 years ago. And and basically, big corporations found out that we can take this toxic chemical and actually turn it into cooking oil. Great. Let's do it. We're not supposed to eat this.

Cherryh (01:14:10)
Do you watch Hazard

Cherryh (01:14:11)
you should watch Hazardous History with Henry Winkler, The Fonz. It's this awesome

Brett Linkletter (01:14:16)
Okay.

Cherryh (01:14:17)
show and it basically just goes through and tells you all the dangerous crap that we've done to ourselves over the last years. And this last one was about dining and it was like how all this crazy stuff that we used to eat in our food. So you need to you need to check that out.

Brett Linkletter (01:14:31)
It's crazy. Have you have you

Brett Linkletter (01:14:32)
heard of seed oil scout, by the way? It's an app. So great. my god, this

Cherryh (01:14:35)
Mm. No. All right.

Brett Linkletter (01:14:37)
could be good for you to cool app to report on. I'm giving them a shout out on this podcast. But

Cherryh (01:14:41)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:14:41)
it's an awesome app where this this shows you how much the demand is for anti seed oil restaurants. Basically, you have to pay to use this app that tells

Cherryh (01:14:52)
Really?

Brett Linkletter (01:14:53)
you which restaurants aren't using seed oils.

Cherryh (01:14:56)
Wow.

Brett Linkletter (01:14:57)
There's that much of a demand that people are willing to pay to understand it's all community driven, by the way.

Cherryh (01:15:01)
I don't

Cherryh (01:15:01)
know, can't I just ask Claude that and they give it to me for free?

Brett Linkletter (01:15:05)
I don't know

Brett Linkletter (01:15:05)
if they have that. But the thing is, so like a lot of restaurants don't publicly say whether they use it or not. So this is all community driven. So people literally go

Cherryh (01:15:10)
That's true. That's true.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:13)
to a restaurant and they'll mark as like this restaurant's great, it has no seed oils or never going here

Cherryh (01:15:17)
Okay. That's cool. I like that.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:19)
again. It's got seed oils. Like,

Cherryh (01:15:21)
I like it.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:23)
if you ha if you had to eat at one chain every day for a year, which one?

Cherryh (01:15:30)
Taco Bell.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:32)
Taco Bell's great.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:33)
Taco Bell is really good. I

Cherryh (01:15:35)
I change, but I love Taco Bell.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:38)
used to love Del Taco when I lived in California. Del Taco was great. Well, kind of ours back in the day too. They were awesome.

Cherryh (01:15:40)
Yeah, that's a good one too.

Brett Linkletter (01:15:44)
pineapple and pizza. And I know you worked okay, so yes, okay. And you worked at a pizza place, so I wanted to ask that too.

Cherryh (01:15:46)
Absolutely. Absolutely. Love it. It's Yeah, I worked I

Cherryh (01:15:51)
worked at a couple of pizza places. I worked at Pizza Hut and then this little place called Gambino's Pizza when I was like fifteen. Yeah. I love

Brett Linkletter (01:15:57)
Mm. I love it.

Cherryh (01:15:59)
pineapple. I'd get pineapple on my pizza all the time. Pineapple and then like the yellow peppers and like beef. so good.

Brett Linkletter (01:16:07)
Amazing. What are and

Brett Linkletter (01:16:09)
what are some I I guess maybe recent books you've read that that you feel like the industry needs to read as well?

Cherryh (01:16:16)
I'm reading Fork Fight right now by Mark Brzezinski, who is kind of known as like the godfather of the Dallas fast casual scene. So I'm

Brett Linkletter (01:16:25)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:16:25)
I don't I mean, I just started it, so that's pretty interesting. I mean the hospitality book, unusual what is it that everybody calls? Unreasonable hospitality. You

Brett Linkletter (01:16:33)
Unreasonable hospitality. So good.

Cherryh (01:16:36)
know what I mean not a unpopular opinion, but I don't read a lot of industry books. I like to read I read t constantly, but I read fiction and I read like about like

Cherryh (01:16:46)
dragons and fairy porn

Brett Linkletter (01:16:47)
cool.

Cherryh (01:16:49)
and murder mysteries. Like that's what I read. I like that's how I

Brett Linkletter (01:16:51)
I love that.

Cherryh (01:16:52)
lose myself. It's no more industry stuff, only fantasy stuff.

Brett Linkletter (01:16:56)
Well it's it's interesting. So

Brett Linkletter (01:16:57)
my my first and only job I've I've really ever had was I used to work at Casamigos Tequila. And

Cherryh (01:17:03)
Okay.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:03)
I I was there early, early stage before they were the Casamigos of today. And I remember the owner, Randy Gerber, he always told me, he's like, We are going to be successful because we did not come from this industry, because we are different and we think different.

Cherryh (01:17:19)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:19)
and he always preached about that too. It's like educate yourself in another industry and see how we can apply it here. Because everyone else is doing the same thing.

Cherryh (01:17:24)
I love it.

Cherryh (01:17:26)
Yeah, exactly.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:26)
Like right. So I'm actually

Brett Linkletter (01:17:28)
I like that. I'm a fan of of of venturing out just because

Cherryh (01:17:31)
Yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:31)
it's been done the same way every time for years and years doesn't mean it's the right way to do things.

Cherryh (01:17:34)
And we do this all day long,

Cherryh (01:17:36)
every day. Like I need a break.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:38)
Yeah, totally.

Brett Linkletter (01:17:41)
what is your biggest failure and what did you learn from it?

Cherryh (01:17:45)
My biggest failure is that I got fired from a job I really liked. I was the basically like the nightlife reporter for a millennial magazine in Kansas City that I helped launch. And I got fired from that because I took a limo ride.

Brett Linkletter (01:18:08)
my God.

Cherryh (01:18:10)
So they hired me as the Carrie Bradshaw of Kansas City.

Cherryh (01:18:13)
And I would and it was just when blogging started, it was a long time ago, and I would like write my normal stories and then go out every night to clubs and stuff and then blog about it and then from one of the bars like we took a limo ride to another bar and that reporters aren't supposed to take free gifts. So that was

Brett Linkletter (01:18:32)
Wow.

Cherryh (01:18:33)
that was very sad and I was devastated, but that led me to this career now. And so I feel like what I've learned is like just because you're down, it's not over.

Cherryh (01:18:44)
you're gonna be able you're gonna just do something else. Like it's not the end of the world. Just like they say everybody's replaceable, every job's replaceable. Just figure it out and move on. Yeah. And you feel terrible,

Brett Linkletter (01:18:51)
Yeah. Getting fired can be great. I was fired from Cost Amigos. That's how this all happened too. So

Cherryh (01:18:59)
especially if you're an overachiever like

Brett Linkletter (01:19:01)
Yeah.

Cherryh (01:19:02)
go getter, which I have n not a failure usually, so it was like a gut punch. Like yeah. Yeah, you're not good.

Brett Linkletter (01:19:07)
Yes. But turned out good. That's awesome. And

Brett Linkletter (01:19:11)
and Sheriff, if you could step into my shoes, what would you have asked yourself that I didn't today?

Cherryh (01:19:16)
my gosh. You did a pretty good job. I mean, I'm impressed, especially from a as a

Brett Linkletter (01:19:20)
thank you.

Cherryh (01:19:21)
reporter. Yeah, no, I can't think of anything. Good job, Brett. Maybe I need to hire you.

Brett Linkletter (01:19:25)
I love it. Hell yeah. Okay. I love it. I love it.

Brett Linkletter (01:19:29)
Love the chat with you. And for for people that that wanna follow you and wanna pay attention to all all that you're doing, your publications, where can they find you?

Cherryh (01:19:39)
Fastcasual.com. I'm also on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn. I use it a lot. please come visit us at the FastCasual Executive Summit. We are taking registrations now. Would love to have you guys. We have a freaking amazing time. I mean, we work hard, we play hard, we have all kinds of fun things in store. So hope to see you guys.

Brett Linkletter (01:19:57)
Amazing. Are there any speaker engagements

Brett Linkletter (01:19:59)
left yet? If I could speak on something? Anything left?

Cherryh (01:20:01)
we have one. We have one breakfast rap session, which is like four small group discuss discussions. Every fifteen minutes the leaders change so you get to talk to the whole room eventually. But we are sold

Brett Linkletter (01:20:13)
Okay.

Cherryh (01:20:13)
out on platinum and gold, like that's our very last one. Yeah. Yeah. But you gotta come regardless because we you'll meet some awesome people.

Brett Linkletter (01:20:16)
Okay, I know we're very last minute, so it it doesn't surprise me. But all good. Yes. Yeah, I think we will. I this sounds this sounds exactly

Brett Linkletter (01:20:25)
kind of like our jam because I after NRA I was like, Hey, props to them for putting on an amazing event, but it's just too big. I I I want something more

Cherryh (01:20:31)
Yeah. And I also

Cherryh (01:20:33)
call my unofficial title as a director of fun because as soon as like something's done, then I'm like taking the whoever wants to go out for more. Like yeah.

Brett Linkletter (01:20:41)
Yeah. Hundred percent.

Cherryh (01:20:43)
another cool thing we're doing is so my podcast is called Fast Casual Nation and Paul and I are

Brett Linkletter (01:20:46)
Mm-hmm.

Cherryh (01:20:47)
doing a live podcast on stage with the technology guy from Shake Shack at the event. So that'll be cool too. So yeah, very cool. I've been trying

Brett Linkletter (01:20:54)
That's huge. So cool.

Cherryh (01:20:57)
to get Shake Shack forever and it finally happened.

Brett Linkletter (01:20:59)
Huge. No, that's an amazing brand.

Brett Linkletter (01:21:01)
Wow. They have a cool story too.

Cherryh (01:21:02)
Exactly.

Brett Linkletter (01:21:05)
sure. Thank you so much for your time today. This is this been super awesome. I'm definitely gonna follow up with you with these for these events coming up. I mean, would love to come. Sounds incredible. you're doing amazing things, guys. If if you're not following Sarah, check her out. I'm gonna put all her links below this podcast. It's been an awesome time today, Sarah. Thank you so much, and

Cherryh (01:21:19)
Thank you so much. Have a good one.

Brett Linkletter (01:21:21)
absolutely chat soon. Thank you.