Babak Bina: 0:00

Times will be tough in any business. You have to, in your core, believe in your conviction of what it is you're trying to do. And so if you have that at the foundation of what it is you're trying to do and where you're trying to go, that'll help you through those self-doubts or a bad review or a bad Yelp or a bad Google review, whatever it may be. But I think that certainly the name helps because that helps open the door. But that's that doesn't guarantee success in any way, shape, or form.

Brett Linkletter: 0:31

Hi, my name is Brett Linkletter, CEO and co-founder of Dineline, a restaurant growth agency. We help restaurant brands of all sizes grow and skill to new heights. Whether that means opening new doors or increasing revenue added. We have a done for new models for all the workforce flights on the market for us. We also have a lot of things. As always, we appreciate you for being here and we hope you enjoy the show. Bobok, how are you? I am great.

Babak Bina: 1:40

How are you, Brett?

Brett Linkletter: 1:41

I'm doing really, really well. Uh very excited to chat with you. And uh I know you're in Boston, but next time you're in Miami, we we got a link up because uh you live in one of the best buildings here also in Miami, one of your other spots. Uh love that city. It's it's fun, man. I know. Um, but let's talk about you. There's there's you have, man, such an interesting story. For for those who don't know who you are, though, um, maybe they're seeing you for the first time. Can you just give our audience just like a quick like two-minute rundown of who you are and a little bit about yourself?

Babak Bina: 2:14

Sure. Um, let's see. So I'm an immigrant, first and foremost, because I think that makes a lot of who I am and how I think about the world and people around me and the way I run my businesses. Um I uh came here from Iran after the 1979 revolution. I came into the business of hospitality through the back door, um, in through the dish pit of a pizza joint or a slice shop that a friend of mine's family owned. And then I worked work my way through and ultimately co-founded with my sister Bina Family Hospitality, which owned um some eight, nine restaurants. And then um most recently I um partnered up with one of my um good friends, Jamie Bissonet, a well-known, nationally acclaimed uh chef. And we started our own new group called BCB3 Hospitality with our other friend and partner, Andy Carton. And um Andy was my uh general manager in opening one of my restaurants, and uh I do a lot of different things. I also have a real estate firm and um I've been involved in um making an impact in various neighborhoods in the city of Boston over the last uh four decades.

Brett Linkletter: 3:29

Very cool, very cool, man. And yeah, your your story I was reading up on before this podcast, and it it's extremely unique and extremely powerful. I think like, I mean, I think people should know more about it. It's it's and I know you just said yourself, I mean, you you identify now as that as an immigrant still. Tell me though, as you when you first came here, you you came to Boston after the Iranian revolution, right? Yep. Uh what do you I mean, what do you remember about those first couple of weeks when you first came here? Because you're you're coming from a pretty traumatic situation. What was that like?

Babak Bina: 4:01

Um it's it's you know, you I don't know if you've had any traumatic experience in your life, but I think that you try to surpress uh suppress these feelings and you try not to think much about them because you just want to move forward, right? You just you just want to get through the days um that have now become years. But I'm starting to get to the point in my life where I'm being asked this question a lot and I'm reflecting more and more. And so what I remember was oddly enough, as a 13-year-old in 1979, um was that the bottom sort of fell out. Um, you know, that that that summer before we traveled through Europe like we always did, we were escorted through the various uh checkpoints in various airports in Europe like we were kings and queens. And then all of a sudden, when my mom was able to finally get me out of the country, we were treated like shit. Um we were literally old were you, by the way? I was 13, just a little over 13. Yeah. Wow. And um that it was it was traumatic. It was traumatic. And we were detained in London for 24 hours under armed guards as if we were terrorists. And um yeah, it was um, you know, I I obviously I'm lucky that my mom got me out uh just in time before it was became completely impossible. My dad got stuck for three years until he finally was able to get out. My sisters were going to school in Boston, that's why we ended up here.

Brett Linkletter: 5:35

So wait, your dad was still stuck in Iran three years after that, and then he finally unfortunately, you know, I remember he was a very affluent guy.

Babak Bina: 5:46

He'd grown up in um in a very comfortable life. Um uh, you know, um a nanny in his younger years and a butler in his older years. Um, and he got to this country at 59, which is the age I'm in currently, which is this is really you've caught me at a this might become a psychotherapy session, Brett. Okay. Um beware. Uh and and listeners, beware as well. But um, my dad ultimately um you know got here and we would we would uh we we lived in a deep great neighborhood, Brookline, Massachusetts, just outside of Boston.

Brett Linkletter: 6:23

Yeah.

Babak Bina: 6:24

And he would get up every day and would say, I wouldn't let my servants live in this place, and we wouldn't see him for the rest of the day. Um and then ultimately he died a year later, um, the day after the Persian New Year, and it was uh because of that heartache, I think, you know.

Brett Linkletter: 6:39

And and how did you process that? How'd you handle that?

Babak Bina: 6:43

You know, I didn't I I I really hated what happened to us, and I blamed him a lot, I think. And my um uh my life, my sister's lives, and my my mom's life, it was turned upside down. We lost everything. We lost um he lost five generations generations of wealth. It never got passed down to me, but uh but beyond that, it was um we had a comfortable life, needless to say. And and uh but I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it. Um because through adversity, through failure, you learn, and you learn how to develop a thicker skin, how to be a better human being. And so when you ask me, you remember being an immigrant because it's intentional. I don't want to ever forget. And um, I have a couple of boats. One of them is named the chief dishwasher.

Brett Linkletter: 7:38

Oh, that is incredible.

Babak Bina: 7:39

Because when people ask me in a restaurant setting, oh, what do you do here if they don't know me or what have you? And I'm walking through the restaurant and they ultimately hone in on me and they call me over. Yeah, you know, what's your what's your role here? And I just I'm just I'm just a chief dishwasher.

Brett Linkletter: 7:56

Wow, that's so incredible. Yeah, super cool, man. Super cool. So I mean, I I think that's really cool though, by the way. So I I'm from California originally. Um we're in uh Orange County.

Babak Bina: 8:09

Okay.

Brett Linkletter: 8:10

Uh in Northern California.

Babak Bina: 8:12

Oh, area. Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 8:14

Nice. Yeah, grew up in Orange County, uh, eventually moved up to LA, was there for 12 years. Oh, Teherongelus. Yeah.

Babak Bina: 8:22

Tevranjulus. Tevrangelist. Yeah. Tevranjulist. Yes. For those who don't know, a lot of a lot of Iranians and even non-Iranians, I mean, there's streets that are that are in in Farsi that are that are in LA. Um pretty crazy.

Brett Linkletter: 8:37

There's a lot of Iranians. Yeah, 100%. Um my actually my uncle was they never got married, but he was together with an Iranian for like 25 years. Oh wow. They're basically our family to us at this point. Um in Admin, right? So I uh yeah, very familiar with her. And um, but I I moved to Miami a couple of years ago, and and it is it is all immigrants, as you know, right? Uh my my wife's Brazilian, right? I think I told you that earlier too. And and uh she, same thing. Like we, I mean, I met her in Brazil and brought her here. Uh that's that's how this all happened. Right. Um I I ended up learning Portuguese, really falling in love with the culture and and everything now. And so even though I'm I'm not an immigrant, I have always been around immigrants. And one thing I always tell my wife and all my other friends here are also immigrants. We have a couple of mutual friends already, uh you know, Italians, a couple of French friends of mine, and they all identify actually as immigrants the same. And I think there's something really special about that because at least what I've learned about like through Brazilian culture and meeting my wife and all her friends and whatnot is like so many people come here and they really recognize they they actually recognize the opportunity we have here now in the US, right? Obviously. And I've seen the struggle because I I I lived in São Paulo for almost eight months, and and I've and I've seen now her also transform as a person who grew up in São Paulo, was going to law school, ended up dropping out of law school to then come here and move in with me and start a business from scratch without knowing anything, barely knew English. And it's I got to kind of in its first side of the story, and it is it is we got to give more credit to immigrants, I think, than Americans do. Like it is very tough. And I think that the people that have gone through that in a situation like yourself, they come out so damn strong. And I would argue so so damn so much more stronger than so many other Americans that they just don't get it. They they don't they don't understand what it took to get here and build from nothing. Where I told you myself, I'm from Orange County. I I grew up in you know Laguna Beach and Newport Beach. Oh man, everyone there is it grew up with every opportunity in the world. Yet so many of them don't do much with it. You know what I mean?

Babak Bina: 10:44

Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 10:45

Um, I think that's incredible, man. Super cool. And I guess now transitioning now into the restaurant space. I mean, how when did you realize hospitality like maybe wasn't just going to be a job for you, but it was it was your actual path that you were gonna take?

Babak Bina: 10:58

Yeah. I you know, I didn't know early on, obviously. I just frankly wanted to just fit in with the rest of the kids. And I asked a bunch of guys uh in high school, you know, what do you guys do in the summertime? And one of them said that he goes um to south of France. I said, Well, don't have a passport, can't go there. Um my my other friend said that uh he, you know, his he and his family go to Nantucket. I said, again, I don't I can't get a visa to Nantucket. He's like, No, you moron. Nantucket is just an island off of Massachusetts. And uh I said, Oh, okay. Um, and um then another friend, Carlo Fertuziello, said that um my dad um owns restaurants. And I said, Oh, that's really cool. What do you do? He said, I just work with my dad in the summertime. I said, That's really cool. Can I come do that? He's like, You're really strange, but sure. Come on, come on over and talk to my dad. So that weekend I went and um talked to Phil, who was an immigrant himself. Uh, minimum wage was like, I don't know, $1.15, $1.20, and I was getting paid under the table. I think the statute of limitation is over now, so we can we can talk about it. But yes, um I um, you know, I I ultimately got through um high school and then went to Boston University and um got a business degree with a minor in um in marketing. Um and I ultimately was like, okay, my family got me, uh my mom especially was like, all right, that's it with the restaurant business. My sister had already started a restaurant business and with family money and um opened the first north northern Italian restaurants in Boston called Toscano on Charles Street in Beacon Hill. And so she was like, it's enough with the restaurant business with you two. You know, you you you went to high uh um college, you need to get a real job. And you know, that statement has always stuck to me, right? And I think about how we have been able to elevate what we do, luckily. Um, and so I went to a couple of corporate jobs and I realized it really wasn't for me. And I decided to go back and I opened my first restaurant in 1990. Um, I decided to quit my job in '89, opened in 1990 in a neighborhood in the south end of Boston, and um the rest is sort of history.

Brett Linkletter: 13:12

So cool. Do you feel like having that humble beginning? Um, you said, you know, like chief dishwashers we associate with now, right? And that those early stages, do you feel like that's kind of shaped or changed your management style today still? Do you feel like that's yeah, 100%.

Babak Bina: 13:27

Uh after um Pinot's, I started working in some restaurants um and uh helped out my sister at Toscano once in a while. And they opened the restaurant also in Providence. But um my job was with an Italian family. I won't mention the name of the restaurant, but I'll just say that it was in our little Italy called the North End. Uh back then the mobs were still the mob was still around, uh, very, very strong. And um, you know, the owner would slap you, would would kick the workers, would um, you know, completely humiliate his employees. And and the employees did horrible things, um, really horrible things that I've that I won't mention. But I said to myself, if I ever become an owner, or if I've become ever a manager, even, I want to treat people with dignity and with with with humaneness and with um with care and compassion. And so that has been really the core of what I've done. And now with my business partners, that truly is how, and Jamie's been living that motto also, and uh we've been sort of moving along this track, and now we've uh merged these two tracks together. And um, that that is really we like to do business with people who we like to do business with, not with those who we don't feel comfortable doing business with. So we had an incredible deal that we could have taken, but um, we passed on this opportunity because um the person who owned the property was just not a good person. So we just said, you know what, not worth it. We don't need this. And so we try to take that approach with everything. We also want to be um compassionate at work, but compassionism and fairness doesn't mean that you're gonna not be strict about what your um expectations are of staff, and that's a key factor, and a lot of people confuse those things 100%. And we want to be fair in in people earning the right amount of money, whether it's our distributors and suppliers or whether it is our staff and ourselves. At the end of the day, I run a nonprofit with my wife, um, but but really uh our restaurants are for profit, so we have to at the end of the day be profitable to be doing what we're doing.

Brett Linkletter: 15:48

For sure. And like you said too, I mean, care character counts, man. I mean, I think that's that's incredible. Um, and I think too many people probably would take a deal, probably with someone who maybe wasn't the best person in these kind of situations, but I respect that. That's super cool, man. Very cool. Um it makes me think too that like in the hospitality space. I mean, I've seen, I'm sure you've seen it way more than me. But like, how how do how do you approach like the you know, the phrase that the customer is always right? That's kind of that's kind of something I I I feel like even in my company that that is something where I mean we work with restaurant owners, right? And and restaurant owners can can be the coolest, most incredible people in the world, but just like any other industry, there's there's a lot of bad apples too. Right. And how do you how do you approach that?

Babak Bina: 16:38

That's a that's a you know, the old anecdote, and and there is there's some truth to it. And the way I think about it and and the way I talk about it with our staff is that people come into the restaurant to be entertained ultimately, and they want to ultimately be seen and be heard. And if we're doing a great job in the way we greet them from the door, all the way through their meal, until they actually step outside of our doors. Uh, because a lot of restaurants, great greeting, maybe great even experience in the mid, but then at the end, it's like it fizzles. You're walking out the door, people are standing there, you know, talking, no one's walking in, so therefore they're ignoring you. I think as long as they're in your premise, they're in your care. Just imagine if someone walks into your home and they're your guest. You're not just gonna let them walk out the door by themselves, right? You're gonna walk them out the door, perhaps. Um, you're gonna show them out. So I think that those things are extremely important. And I think that as long as our staff are doing what they should be doing, and I trust that they all do, then I'm gonna have our staff's back. We are going to stand up for their rights. So if a guest is being rude or being inappropriate, yeah, they're they're out of the restaurant. I mean, I don't care who they are, what they do. Um, we need to um allow our staff to have dignity and to know that when they come to work, they're safe from you know the craziness in the world and that they it, you know, we're we're here to take care of people and disarm them from their their um difficult day or week or month. And we'll do everything we can in being hospitable and taking care of them. But that line can't be crossed where um they're being inappropriate or or rude to our staff or demeaning.

Brett Linkletter: 18:40

So yeah. No, I could imagine. I could definitely imagine. Uh tell me about what you think about service versus food quality. I mean, is there is there in your opinion, can great service make up for average food?

Babak Bina: 18:54

I mean, what you got all these great questions? Um the short answer is yes. And I'm and I'm again, I'm gonna I'm gonna reference my partners that and and especially Jamie, who is a chef, right? And and um uh one of the reasons we're partners now, business partners, is because he does believe that as well. I think that we know I'll turn a I'll turn a question around to you. When you when you go to a restaurant and you have a mediocre meal, yeah and then the server was great to you, and they they bent backwards before you even knew that you were missing a steak knife. They were there because they forgot it, let's say, and they they were there. You dropped it, they were there. So all those attentions to detail will matter at the end of the day when you leave that place. And you may have had an okay meal, but you'll remember how you were taken care of. Now, split that, in my opinion, and and you have an incredible meal, and um then you have someone. That is condescending to you and they're rude to you. I don't want to go back there. Why would I want to do that? And I think that in my theory and in my in my experience, it works from top to bottom in any business. If you've got people that are bad at the counter when you walk into a retail store and they're being rude and they're not being caring, and hospitable, because hospitality is not just in the restaurant business, in every business, in your business, in every business is it there's hospitality. And so I think it works from top to bottom. And if the if the top person doesn't understand that the guests have the right to go somewhere else and get that services or that that goods, um, then you're in you're in trouble because then the staff are going to behave the same way. So I think it's important to um be the utmost hospitable staff that you can be. And that only can come through the core, from top to bottom, from the core that you are um paying attention and you're talking about it, and you're talking some more about it, and and guiding people and coaching people, and those those small things will ultimately will pay off. It's sometimes it's nauseum, but but humans need to be coached and taught and shown. And so that's the way you can get through it. But hospitality will definitely overtake uh a bad meal.

Brett Linkletter: 21:28

Yeah. No, I I hear what you're saying. I as you were talking through this, I was thinking about my own personal experiences and how I felt. And it's it's actually interesting because there's so there's a restaurant down the street from my place, and I don't want to mention the name because I'm gonna say good things about them, but I also had not the best food experience, but the service was top-notch. Yeah. And so my wife and I honestly, we had probably go to this place like four times a year, you know, like five times a year, maybe. Um, and it's like the first time we went was incredible, service was on point, food was incredible. Uh, we end up going back again. The food was not so great, but the service was still incredible. And so we end up going back a third time because we're like, God, they're so great. They're so they're just good people, they they treat you well, and we had a great experience too. So I think sometimes God, at the end of the day, I know in the restaurant space you want to be as consistent as possible, but sometimes you you just can't. Sometimes it's not going to be exactly the same as it always was previously. And so I think guests are more forgiving of maybe not the best food in these certain circumstances if the service was top-notch. I mean, we went we went back, right? Yeah, we went back. Um and I remember that. So I I totally get it.

Babak Bina: 22:42

But on the on the flip side, um we You ideally, by the way, you you you want everything to be perfect or as near perfect as possible, right? Of course. And so let's not, you know, we we don't want to serve bad food. We don't want to we don't want to be misfiring, but at the same time, um, we're talking about if all things were equal, um, you know, hospitality and service um does matter. And and when people know that you care, you genuinely care, uh, and you've shown them from the beginning that they entered to the time that they were done with the meal, then that'll that'll um help you overcome mishaps. And but none of us are perfect, we're all human. Things are gonna happen. The question is, how do you handle that situation that occurred? Will you deal with it in a hospitable way? Will you turn on the guest?

Brett Linkletter: 23:29

And this might be kind of a loaded question, but I how how do you teach hospitality to your new staff members? I mean, what what does that process look like? How rigorous is it? Yeah, what's day one look like all the way till end of the year? How long does it take? Is it continuous? What's that look like for you?

Babak Bina: 23:48

You know, you've been around Persians, you know um that some people um have warm blood. You you your wife is Brazilian, she's she's warm-blooded. Um, you know, you enter into a home of a Persian or a Brazilian, you know that you're being taken care of. And um in in my culture, you give up your your bed for your guest so that they sleep in it. And so those things are extremely important. And some people walk in through the door and through the application process, they have they show you that they have that innate ability that may not have all the technical things. And you can teach the tech to technical aspects of the business, but being truly hospitable ideally is is in their ability and and in their it runs through their DNA. However, I think that with repetition, with mindfulness, with constantly coaching and talking about it, as I said earlier, those factors will absolutely help the person that wants to learn it and understands it, that it's gonna make a difference in their life and in people that that are being taken care of. Um it will make a big impact if you can just coach them along, talk about it from day one. And you know, if it if it delays your restaurant opening, then it delays your restaurant opening. Um you know, but it's not a thing that you can teach it and forget about it. You have to, you have to um, you know, if someone's having a bad day, again, you want when they show up and you see through the evening that something is wrong, you need to pull them aside and say, Hey Joe, what's happening? You know, what's going on? You seem a little bit off. Can you shake it off? You want to go walk around the block and come back? Because we're really, you know, it's a busy night. We really need you to be here. Um, so those those moments where you're kind and you don't walk up to someone and say, Hey, what the heck is the matter with you? And then you go off on them, that's just going to spiral them the wrong way. So it's about how you you um bring people along.

Brett Linkletter: 25:53

Yeah. I always tell my managers too, teaching managers to manage their people, it's like no feedback is feedback, by the way, right? So if you have an employee that that acts out, or to your point, maybe it's truly having a bad day or whatever it gets, and then they act up or whatever it is, no feedback is feedback, and that resonates with the rest of the team too, right? Someone doing something wrong, and then you not saying something, it basically tells the other employees that I I can also do that, or that's also appropriate and whatnot, right? Which I just don't support.

Babak Bina: 26:25

Um, and so I'll tell you, I'll tell you a funny thing, if I could interrupt you for a second. Sorry. Yeah, of course. But what pops to my head is when we were building JM Curly, which we opened um some 14 years ago now, um, we came up with this lawn order. And uh the lawn order had a lot of things, almost like the Ten Commandments. Uh, thou shalt not do this, thou shalt not do that. Um, it included not, you know, sitting at the bar with your date and pretending like you're you know in a hotel room. Uh or uh um um and at the end of it, it said just don't be a douchebag.

Brett Linkletter: 27:06

Really? I love that.

Babak Bina: 27:08

And my my wife, and you know, I ran, I had run some six, seven fine dining restaurants up into that point. And we decided to really, because of the economic crash of 2008, we said, you know what, fine, people don't want fine dining. We'll give them the best dive place that is gonna be blowing their mind away. So JM Curly was created, and this law and order was was to, and I my wife was like, I can't believe you're gonna, you're not gonna put this anywhere, are you? We plastered it on the wall, we put it on the back of the menu, it was on our website. And, you know, people, people, it was tongue-in-cheek, right? But at the same time, it was both for ourselves, our staff, as well as those that were coming in. Because Yelp was on the rise. And and in fact, one of the last lines before that line was don't be a Yelper. Yelp can't help you. Tell us if you have an issue. We'd love to take care of it. Um paraphrasing. But at the end of the day, we wanted to take care of people. And um, just don't be rude. Don't, don't, don't be a douchebag. And and that also stood for us as staff members and managers and servers and what have you, and owners. You you can't also behave that way as well.

Brett Linkletter: 28:29

Well, what's your hiring process look like, by the way? How does that how does that work? How do you guys recruit?

Babak Bina: 28:34

So, I mean, it it's a lot of word of mouth for us, luckily, because people want to work with us. Yeah, occasionally we use uh various websites like Boston Chefs, which is a a great website for restaurants in Boston. Um, we don't do a lot of national, uh, we have used um headhunters um on the higher level jobs. But our our everyday staff that really is what makes our powerhouse and what the fabric of our internal community is about are people that are saying, hey, you want to work at BCB3, you want to work at Bean a Family Hospitality. You know, Bean of Family Hospitality's oldest employee has been with us since 2000. I'm sorry, 1995. Wow. 1995, and this guy started as a dishwasher, and he is now he is now a sous chef and has been for a long time. Um, so you know, um our director of operations started as a bartender and and bar manager and and left for a short while because grass always looks greener um, you know, across the field, and then you get there and you're standing on top of it, and it's brown. Like I thought it was green, it's not. And I think that um, you know, I always say you don't want to go for money, you want to go for what you're gonna get in your work environment. Um and I don't, I'm also very loyal with with our suppliers and and distributors. You know, we give them chances, we give our staff chances. And so it's really important to take care of yourself, you take care of the people around you and widen that core and uh give people opportunities to to tell you what might be going wrong. And when people see that culture internally, they want their friends to be a part of that culture. So oftentimes if someone is leaving to another city because of another opportunity, and we have you know, a lot of times people are going because they're working at the wig shop or cocktail lounge, and um, they can be there, they hone their skills and they become a uh bar manager or beverage director somewhere else. We're happy for them. That's awesome. Before they go out, they're high, they're hiring for us before they leave. So that's the way we we we find our best staff members.

Brett Linkletter: 30:57

That that is incredible. Um, it's interesting. I found like in my space, my industry, we use a lot of like LinkedIn recruiting, and it's been great, but I don't I don't imagine restaurant owners use LinkedIn very much for recruiting, right? I would have you guys maybe maybe some higher level positions? Do you guys or not really?

Babak Bina: 31:15

When there there have been desperate moments, yeah, uh as as they they come about. And we're certainly the past few years, pre just before the pandemic, and certainly the cause of the pandemic was we lost a lot of great people because they just simply were fed up, and fed up because of, like you said earlier, bad apples in the industry, and they were jaded. And sometimes we do find people that come to us and they're they're sort of shell-shocked, and we have to kind of get them to be themselves and allow them to be themselves. Um, and 100%.

Brett Linkletter: 31:50

So, so you're you you start as a dishwasher, you grew into where you are today, and and again, your story is is pretty incredible, man. And I love to see it. So many restaurant owners try, and I think what's what do they say, most restaurants go out of business in the first two years is is what it is, right? Exactly.

Babak Bina: 32:04

Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 32:04

I mean, you have concepts been around for years and years and years. That's incredible. You've obviously built a lot of strengths in your industry, but what do you feel like are maybe some of your weaknesses? What are some areas that you feel like I don't know, the world has changed a lot in the last 20 years, right? Like, do you do you feel like is there something that you feel out of touch with at this point to some degree, based on where the world is going? Do you feel like uh and and and how do you improve upon those things then as well?

Babak Bina: 32:29

Sure. I I hugely believe in surrounding myself with smarter people, um, with people that know things that I don't know. And it's important for almost a six-year-old guy to to have people that are um more savvy and and I can concentrate on the things that I can concentrate on, and I know that I'll do well in. But um, you know, certainly keeping up with technology is is um an ever um changing world. Um I remember we were deciding whether or not we should have a fax machine. Um, I don't even know if faxes exist anymore or not. Um dating myself, but you know, I think that you always doesn't matter what point in your life you are, you always want to be hanging around. And I have two boys that are uh 23 and almost 20, and um they will be the people that they're hanging around with. They will be a representation of their family. So their upbringing carries them to a certain extent, but you know, you want to be surrounding yourself with good people, uh, with people with character and with uh with morals. Um so I think that for me, the handicap is that um uh it's a fast moving industry, it's a fast moving world, and um, you have to be adaptive adapting. And I surround myself with people that can that can help me do that.

Brett Linkletter: 33:52

Yeah. How much would you say at this point when you launch a new concept, which by the way, you have so many different types of concepts, which is incredible to you, because that is not easy to do.

Babak Bina: 34:04

Um one of these days I'll learn my lesson and we'll just create a cookie cutter, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 34:10

Yeah. Well, I guess my my question is like how much when you launch a new concept, how much of that new concept success do you think is because of now your brand name and you yourself, maybe the association to that brand? And how much is it maybe through some strategic marketing that you guys are doing to promote that new restaurant? I mean, what what would you say the split is?

Babak Bina: 34:34

Great question. Great question. Um, I think that the leg up we get based on our experience is certainly what contributes to the success. And collectively, between Jamie, myself, and Andy, we have, I don't know, over 70, 80 years of experience in the business combined. And we we're constantly talking, we're constantly bouncing ideas off of each other. We get hit upon several times a week about a new project, about a new hotel, about this, that, the other thing. We really try to stay true to our passions um based on where we've been, what we've seen, what we really like to do. And for us, we're sort of lucky that we can afford to do that, right? Because not everybody, you know, they're just so in the weeds that they can't see beyond it. And they um, you know, that's difficult. And I and I feel bad. And um certainly um I have helped a lot of restaurants open and and not as a consultant, although I've done I've done that as well, but really to just lend them a lend them a hand. Um they're stuck in the bureaucracy of the of the city um um bureaucracies. Uh uh, you know, I could break through because of my uh people that I know or the experiences that I've been through, and I would uh you know, of course, I extend a hand.

Brett Linkletter: 36:01

What what what does a launch look like for you guys? Because I mean we get we get asked this all the time, right? And I think I mean I've heard some people say, uh, well, this guy or she sticks to ask well because it's her or it's him, right? And and I I say, okay, yeah, but they they ask, and and honestly, it's it's always like, well, how can I stand out amongst all these other restaurants? Miami, for example, as you know, there's a new restaurant opening every single week. Yeah. And it's and they're all great concepts, right? And a lot haven't worked, even with the big name reputations and this and that, maybe haven't absolutely done amazing in in Paris or New York or LA, but they come to Miami and then and they actually come up and then they're gone, right?

Babak Bina: 36:46

So it's interesting. Boston um is is very unique. Um a lot of seas are very unique. I think that this cookie cutter, take whatever it is that works in say Beacon Hill neighborhood of Boston and put it in another neighborhood, in Boston, even necessarily, may not work. So for us, it's it's being very mindful of what do we believe in doing next, right? Truly, what do we believe in doing next, and what makes us tick, because times will be tough in any business. You have to, in your core, believe in your conviction of what it is you're trying to do. And so if you have that at the foundation of what it is you're trying to do and where you're trying to go, that'll help you through those self-doubts or a bad review or a bad Yelp or a bad Google review, whatever it may be. But I think that that certainly the name helps because that helps open the door. But that's that doesn't guarantee success in any way, shape, or form. I disagree with whoever says that.

Brett Linkletter: 37:54

Yeah, 100%. And what well, what do you think about specifically like how do you decide what kind of concept to open up? Um for cons for context too, I have a good friend. Uh his name is Peter, and he was the he was the former CEO. You know, Kiki is on the river in Miami. So he connected us to them. They now we we've been working with them since January. And uh awesome concept. They I mean they do incredible numbers. And um he's no longer with them, and he's now starting his own restaurant group and opening a few restaurants. And I was just chatting with him actually just literally yesterday, and he's he's put together kind of like a formula um to help restaurant owners decide upon what types of concepts to open up based upon the target demographic in a specific area, and then also looking at other restaurants in the area. So, for example, um I mean I've always thought that since I moved to Miami, you know, I'm I'm from California, we have lots of great Mexican food. Miami has very few Mexican restaurants, good Mexican restaurants where I'm just used to every street corner, it's it's Mexico, you know, it all the time. And um I think there's probably an opportunity for some more some more restaurants here. Um I know the owner of Javier's in from Orange County. Uh he's actually a good family friend of ours. And uh I told him the same thing. You you gotta open a Javier chair that people don't know what fine dining Mexican food is. Right. Right. And um I think there's only like one restaurant here, Chatus D's is like the only one. And you know, I'm thinking just from my personal experience, wow, a Mexican concept would do really well in Miami. There just needs more of that. But I'm saying that based on my personal experience, is there a demand for that or not? Do you uh do you, when you're opening a new concept, do you do you do something to research what type of concept you should open up based on the demographics, or is it kind of just your genius where you're you're you're really just going with your gut on some new concept you want to do in this area and you think that it's you know, it's is there data to back it or is it more of like a hunch?

Babak Bina: 39:57

We don't, we don't um, you know. McDonald's and the Burger Kings were the first ones in the world to, you know, do a study radius and say this is the demographics. And uh we don't do that. We we certainly approach it, you know, where is the nearest concept of this? But we have done a lot of firsts in Boston. So um I mentioned my sister and my family with Toscano, uh first northern Italian restaurant. Um, after that, a first tretoria called Azita restaurant in the South End that I named after my sister. No treturia existed in Boston. And so um, and then La Laroke, which was a Persian restaurant and nothing like it anywhere in the world. New York Times wrote about it the first time New York Times ever wrote about uh a restaurant outside of New York. Uh, Ruth Raquel wrote the article that Lala Rook was included in. That was my longest-running restaurant for 24 years. And the list goes on, and we try to find something that makes us stand out. And just because it worked somewhere else, we don't necessarily think that we're gonna take it and transplant it. For us, it has been that Boston could really be the it might be the right moment for this concept. And then we, you know, it's it starts really for us with the location. And if the location we walk in and really it has a feeling that it gives back to us, and it's sort of indescribable. I can't exactly describe it, but we we walk through a location and then ideas start popping up in our heads, and we bounce around those ideas, and we then go back to our sort of memory bank of the ideas and concept that we have in our back pocket and say, we think that Zurito, uh, this Basque restaurant would work great in Beacon Hill, which is our newest concept we opened about a year ago to you know, incredible acclaim by everybody and patrons most importantly. Um but we didn't, we you know, sure, there are no other pincho bars in Boston. So, in a way, it's it's one of the oldest foods in the world, right? But it didn't exist here. So um I think that's and we believed in it, like I said before. So we don't have a formula where, well, okay, where's a nearest Italian restaurant? Can we open it here? Um, or where's the nearest French restaurant? Certainly, if we were to do a French restaurant, we would say, who is our competition? How are we different from them? Because we can't, you know, most of the time we know every every operator, and so we don't necessarily want to be cannibalizing on their business. There's not enough to go around. So we're gonna want to put our own twist in it, and and we wanna we wanna make it unique to us.

Brett Linkletter: 42:50

100%. Talk to me about about the marketing. What's that look like for you guys? How do you how do you get new people to come in? How do you bring people to get people to come back more often? What's that look like?

Babak Bina: 43:01

Yeah. Um, you know, it certainly is not like the way it was back in the day, but I do think that it is extremely important to treat those guests that are coming in, the first few and the next few after that, and you widen that circle. So we do hugely believe in a word of mouth. Yeah and we think that if your ward of you could you could throw the best awards at the restaurant, but at the core of it, if you're not taking care of the guests that are coming in, it's gonna fall apart because the proof is in the pudding. So you could please one critic or one writer um, you know, through whatever method that you do. But at the end of it, if you're not, if you're not truly um what you say you are uh in the way you take care of people on your food, it's gonna fall apart. Now, beyond that, you know, we certainly have an incredible team with Mono Creative, our uh publicist, that that makes sure that we um are on the know when um something is being written about a certain concept that we would fit in. Um but um and then you know, Instagram has certainly been helpful in in making sure that um people get to know about it, but Instagram is changing a little bit now. Uh and a lot of people that are you know, say liking you and following you are not necessarily in your backyard. So they're not going to be coming in through your door every time they like a dish that you put on there. But nonetheless, it's certainly a methodology by which you do. And unfortunately, magazines and print is hurting still. And so um, you know, certain people are trying to make a make a comeback with it. You know, Boston magazine just got uh purchased about a year ago, and and they'll they'll try at it. Um, so yeah, it's it's it's still really gone back to the old fashioned shaking hands and uh making sure that the guests are happy.

Brett Linkletter: 44:57

So so I mean, do you do you guys even have like a chief of chief of marketing at your guys' company?

Babak Bina: 45:01

Or is it it's it's Jamie running food to the table and me bussing a table and uh and Andy pouring wine, and uh and that's what we do every night uh practically. And and it's it's saying hello to guests that are coming in, and and if we don't know them, we still say hello and say, Welcome in. Where have you been? We've been open for a year. You owe us a lot of dinners. Uh you got some catching up to do, you know. Um oh my god.

Brett Linkletter: 45:30

Yeah. Do you what about at least on the remarketing front? Do you do you guys have like a CRM list? Do you collect emails or phone numbers in any kind of way? Anything like that? Yeah.

Babak Bina: 45:39

Yeah. So I think that what we what we do with technology on that end of it is that we really try, because we have seven concepts in total between the two restaurant groups that that I'm um uh founding partner in. We want people to be taken care of, right? That's where it again goes to the core of it. I feel like I'm saying this over and over again, but yeah, it can't be said enough. So we want people to, if I'm not there, right, I'm at another restaurant, at that moment which a guest walks in the door, we want our staff to know immediately who they are, what they like, what they don't like, maybe what table they like and what table they don't like. And the list of the preferences go on goes on from there. And we it goes back to exactly the same way I said earlier, where you want your guests that are coming into your home, you know your best friend likes a particular wine. You're gonna go get the wine. For sure. Um, you know that he likes Grey Goose. You gonna go get the grave.

Brett Linkletter: 46:47

How do you guys how do you guys keep track of all that? Is is that are you guys using like a seven rooms or something like that? Yeah.

Babak Bina: 46:54

So seven rooms, it has been very strong in Europe, and we're we're beginning to this to discuss um working with them. Rezi is who we currently use, and um Rezi um keeps allows us to be able to keep a lot of information on hand. Um but you know, it's important to know who's coming in. And again, it's a lot of referrals. So people have my cell phone number, people have Jamie's cell phone number, people have Andy's cell phone number. So they'll they'll call and say, hey, my best friend's coming into town. Will you please take care take care of him? He really likes this, he doesn't like that, he likes out, you know, he's got allergic to so we'll we'll go through all that stuff and and literally then pass it on to our host team uh at each restaurant and make sure that they're taken care of as if we were there, if we're not there.

Brett Linkletter: 47:43

Wow, that's super cool. Yeah, Resi is incredible. I I mean I I've noticed it where I I kind of had I don't know if it was with Resi or maybe it was like an open table, but what's so interesting is so like um have you been to Claw in Miami?

Babak Bina: 47:58

I went there, I think uh I I I think I went there, yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 48:03

It's it's like right above Casa Donna, if you know that is. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. And um God, I I went I went there for my first time like a year and a half ago, and I had this incredible steak, and I was just like, this is awesome. And so I went back again, I don't know, a few months later, and I I went there and I said, Look, I I I was here a couple months ago. I built you have like six different steaks. I have no idea which one it was. But whatever I had was incredible. And I was trying to describe it to them and on how it tasted and what it was like. And the waiter said, just give me one second. And he walked away and he came back and he told me my exact order last time. And I just repeated it. And it was incredible. And it was kind of in that moment too where I was realizing like this is this is where hospitality, when it meets tech in this kind of way, is is such an amazing experience because you know, it's like you go to a restaurant, and sometimes I always struggle with this. I'll have something amazing on a previous time. And so, like, I want to try something new, but at the same time, I'm like, that was so good. I don't want to screw it up. Like, right? We're human, we're we're wired that way. Yeah, we totally are. Exactly. Right?

Babak Bina: 49:12

No, I I agree with you 100%. I I you know, I think that every guest is that way. I'll tell you what we how we used to do it in the old days and again how we do it now. And I really commend Claude pulling that, you know, um out of the bag for you because that's hospitality, like you said. That's someone going a few minutes out of their way to make sure that you got what you wanted. Some other places, most other places would say, Well, you know what? I don't know what you had, but I really recommend this thing. It's very popular. Yes. Oh, well, thanks a lot for that information, you know. But no, I was looking for that thing. So in the old days, we had, you know, those little Q Q cards, the white card with the lines that you memorize with, you know, like the just a four by six little cards. Of course, of course. We so we had like a little almost like a Rolodex. And if somebody at any point in time through service, this is going to La La Roque 1995 opening in the 1995, we um would have that for when someone said, I really like this bottle of wine, we'd say, look, if you'd like, we'd like we'd like to keep track of it, so give us your name and we'll do that. And then the next time you come in, we'd like to remember it. That's how rudimentary we we had it. And of course, somebody came along and said, We're gonna keep track of this stuff. And and so Toast is obviously our other partner in all our restaurants. And between Toast and Resi, the overlap of the two of them and and the emergence of of how we can pull up things from past history on someone, uh, it's really pretty easy for us to be able to really hone in exactly what the person had.

Brett Linkletter: 50:52

100%. Yeah. Um I'm so I'm such a tech guy. That's obviously what I do in restaurants. Yeah, right. So I I'm always curious to get the opinion of someone like yourself who's done this for so many years and isn't maybe as deep as tech as I am. What is something though, with your current tech stack that that you wish you had? Or have you ever had any tech ideas that you you wish the industry needed or should have? Anything in particular come up?

Babak Bina: 51:25

Well, I again, it's it for for me personally, it's all about hospitality. I started in the back of the house in the kitchen, but I'm ultimately now a front-of-the-house guy and want to make sure that that experience is how they envisioned it coming in. Or even if they didn't envision it, we want to make sure that it's as curated as possible. So technology is really at the core of this, and certainly humans, because you could have this technology at your fingertips, right? But if you don't have the people that are trained to be hospitable and to understand that we have this technology, use it. And when you're talking to a guest and they're telling you things about themselves, oh, you know, we're here for parents' weekend, and then my son goes to Boston College. You know what? They're gonna be back for every parent's weekend, they're gonna be back for Boston College football weekends, and you can build a plethora of information. Their wife's name is Susan, and she is a you know, architect. And so the more things we have that makes things faster for us to be able to um to access this information and have this data at our fingertips, um, and for us it begin begins at at the portal of the making making reservation. So you enter someone's phone number in Resi immediately, if they've ever made a reservation before at any resi establishment anywhere in the in the country, it'll pop up. It'll give us some basic understanding of what they are and who they are. And if they had personally put in their allergies and preferences, which we are really, really um careful about and caring about, then those things will pop up. Then the rest is up to us in building that further and making sure that we remember Brett that was in with his wife, who's from Brazil, that loves a particular wine and a particular steak. So that when you go to one of our other restaurants, they can see your profile and say, Oh, well, we don't have that wine, but we should be prepared to suggest this other wine that we have to Brett because he might like that. So we talk about these things during our pre-meal um shifts, and we talk about who's coming in, who who might who we might know, and um what they mean to us. Um, you know, you'd be in our profile very soon. Um, Brett is a great guy. Um, and uh please great take great take great care of him. Bob Ack was on his podcast and so on and so forth. So they had they say immediately I could not be there. In fact, we were. We were away for in Philly um for the announcement of Michelin and um for the first time ever in Boston, which we're extremely happy about. So it is incredible. We're so happy that they've come to Boston.

Brett Linkletter: 54:19

Bobak, even by the way that you speak about your brand though, and you speak about how you treat your customers, I I'm I'm can I'm like finding myself being so sold on just coming up to Boston to check this out. Like I think you're you're you are truly passionate about it. And it's it's it's interesting because like I think a lot of brands try to create that artificial passion and it feels so artificial. And it's like it's like you said to yourself, I think somewhere, I wrote it down, I lost down a lot of quotes you were saying because they're so good. But you said something about you you have to have that full conviction and really true like love for what you do, because then it comes out in your with your customers, of course, right? Um I think what you're saying as well, though, is it makes a lot of sense. I mean, even if you have the technology, if you don't have the people that are implementing it in the way that feels like it's a true incredible, hospitable experience, it's like, what's the point? I mean, for for our company, so we use we use CRM, we used um HubSpot as our CRM. Sure. And HubSpot has incredible tools, like, oh my God, it's it's overwhelming. Uh but my sales team, for example, I mean, they're not even using you know 10% of all the possibilities. And so, you know, I found myself talking to my managers, I was like, guys, we're we're paying for this extremely expensive CRM. I think I spent like 100,000 a year on our yeah, it's absurd. And and I'm like, you know, I I'm happy we have this, but but we got to use it. Like we got to use it.

Babak Bina: 55:44

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's like there's no point in having, you know, it it's like having a corkscrew, but you try to use a fork to get the cork out.

Brett Linkletter: 55:54

Yeah.

Babak Bina: 55:55

Like, why? Yeah, you know, you have the technology. Um, uh Brian, who's a co-founder of uh HubSpot, is a dear friend, and uh you know, they've built an incredible yeah, yeah, yeah. They're they're came out of Boston, and Brian is an incredible guy and just the most one of the most intelligent guys that I know. And obviously, it's a parent in HubSpot that he's created.

Brett Linkletter: 56:16

Shout out to HubSpot actually, because they are such an incredible company because they are massive, yet they still feel like a startup in all the best ways. Meaning if you want to get in contact with someone from their team, it happens immediately.

Babak Bina: 56:31

Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 56:31

They still and I it's funny actually. So I was at their conference, this is like eight years ago in Boston, my first time in Boston. And um, I was just wondering about HubSpot the first time, blah, blah, blah. And um, I probably signed up the HubSpot a little bit prematurely, where I had like two employees and I was like, I need a Hotspot investment for Yeah, and I was like, I'm I'm doing this. And uh it was a little premature. And I had signed a year agreement with them, and I was like, I think it was like $1,500 a month, which at the time for me was like so much money. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. And so I went to the conference and I just told them, hey guys, like I gotta be honest, I'm just I'm kind of fucked. I I I don't know how I can.

Babak Bina: 57:12

I made a mistake.

Brett Linkletter: 57:13

I made a mistake. Yeah, and a lot of these companies would be like lock you in no matter what, take a hike, like screw, like whatever. Dude, I they they I I was at their conference and I I got to go back into some private office with them out of nowhere. And sorry, Brian, is he the CEO? Brian.

Babak Bina: 57:32

Yeah, he was the CEO. He stepped down a few years ago. Okay.

Brett Linkletter: 57:35

Um yeah, he uh I I saw him in this office. I it was like a makeshift office just for the event or something, where they had people do a bunch of working. And he was this is so funny, and I've never said this, but so he was he was sitting on the floor against a wall, just on his computer, just trucking along, like, hey, what's up? And and I couldn't believe it. Like, that's not CEO. Like it just it felt so cool, and they were so cool, and they let me just be like, hey, you know, don't worry about the contract, just come back when you're ready.

Babak Bina: 58:08

And dude, that is so important in any business, right? Like you said earlier, is the customer right? That was one of the first questions that you wallied at me, right? So the customer made a mistake, right? The guest ordered the wrong dish. You know, we we go out of our way with making sure that we spiel, as we call it, the table if they've not been with us before. But sometimes people are like, no, I know what I want, right? So what are you gonna do? You you just obviously take their order and you guide them, but then they're like, oh, I don't like this dish, you know. So what? Just take it away and get them something they didn't like, right? I mean, yeah. At the end of the day, we're in the business of making people happy. And we what's the point of arguing? And you will win them back tenfolds, and and they'll you'll be out there talking about HubSpot in the way you are. And so those things sometimes people forget. And I know that sometimes we as business operators, especially small business operators, every penny counts. I don't, I'm not here to judge others who run their business the way they do. Forgive me. I'm I hope I'm not coming out um, you know, telling people what to do. I'm just I'm just obviously sharing what I think works for me and what has worked for us. And, you know, at the end of the day, if your conviction is, hey, you're gonna be a soup Nazi on Seinfeld and get out, then maybe that's your shtick, you know. That's that's fine. But in for me, I think you win guests every with every meal that you serve and with every hand that you shake and every person that you come across, not just necessarily in your restaurant, right? There's so many people that I meet out on the street. And they are like, what do you do? What like you run a nonprofit? And what? You're the restaurant business? And you do real estate development? Like, and and you know, everything has to come from again, that core. And the core is now the three partners. And we widen that circle with our manager, director of operation, Kevin Mabry, and and um our wine director, Nodter and Oscar. And these are human beings that have luckily um bought on to what we believe in. And so that person at HubSpot that said to you, Oh, well, come on, let's go back here, right? Or at Claw that said, Let me look into it. Those are the humans that you want to have on your team. And um, they have to know that you want them to have uh the ability, right? And the power to make decisions on the spot that they felt was the right move for themselves, for the table, for the guest. Um, and that'll end up to be fine for the for the restaurant as well.

Brett Linkletter: 1:01:04

Totally. I I once read somewhere that the I'm gonna butcher what I read, but it was something on the lines of the people that give you the worst reviews, those are the people as well, where if you can if you can write that wrong situation, you can have a customer for life. Yeah. I'm butchering it, but it do you how how do you approach negative reviews like that? Because I look, we've we've worked with over 2,500 restaurant concepts. And I'll be the first to say amazing. Yeah, it's it's 10 years in a row. It's crazy. Yeah, and it's like every personality type you can imagine, right? And we have screwed some things up and we have had some bad reviews. And so what I tell my team though is is is always the same. It's like, how can we write what we wronged for them in tenfold?

Babak Bina: 1:01:56

Yeah.

Brett Linkletter: 1:01:56

And and when we do and we actually are able to, we'll have a customer for life. We've had some customers for eight years since that moment at HubSpot, literally since then, we've had the customer, some customers from that time. And so restaurant space too, it happens a lot. We we get a lot of people that we the total application process where someone comes in and and they they tell us what they're making in monthly sales, they tell us what their goal is, we learn about their profit margins. And what we always do in our evaluation, we're looking at working with a brand or not, is we look at the reviews too, right? Because look, you guys um might not do a ton of marketing, right? But but what you are doing, and it's already a core of what you guys, I'm sure you guys have incredible reviews across all your all your all of your locations, right? Because you do this amazing job. But there's a lot of businesses, right, that want to look at working with us. And when it comes to Google advertising specifically, what's the first thing someone does when they see an ad on Google and they're considering that restaurant? They look at your reviews. Right. So we tell our clients, hey, if if we're gonna run Google ads, you we don't want to do anything with you, I'm sorry, until you guys can figure out these reviews. You need to have something because otherwise it's gonna completely destroy the campaign, right? Sure. Meaning you'll run an ad, you'll get in front of all the right people, they look you up and decide, I'm not going because there's two stars, right? Yeah.

Babak Bina: 1:03:16

There's no way waste of your energy and their energy and money.

Brett Linkletter: 1:03:20

Totally, 100%. Now, I guess for owners that are maybe trapped in that situation, what what would you what would you tell them? I mean, maybe maybe some tactical stuff. And obviously, I on within the restaurant they have some things to fix, but how how would you approach negative reviews when it comes to just online reviews? How do you approach that?

Babak Bina: 1:03:37

Somebody needs to be reading them, somebody needs to be tracking them. And it it obviously nowadays reviews come in. And if you have had someone in the restaurant that you unfortunately were not able to get them to be forthcoming, right? And they didn't at the moment tell you what they were unhappy about and give you an opportunity. That's unfortunate. But that's their right. That's that's certainly, you know, maybe maybe it's a client, maybe it's a date, whatever it may be. They may have felt uncomfortable. But I think it's important to, you know, read the reviews and see what you can learn from them. There is something somewhere in that review that might help you. It might even actually help you just double down on what it is you're doing. Maybe um you you you're like, hey, this is what we do, right? And this is what we're all about. And so this person, you can't please everybody that's coming in. You should try. But if you can learn something from a bad review and you could make adjustments, um, then you should. But if if you if it just helps you to say, well, we can't win that person, or or I've gone out of my way to email the person, right? Personally, and say, I'm so sorry that you had this experience. Um we, you know, we really apologize. Um they they even left without dining with us, right? Because, you know, we open restaurants sometimes as a two-hour, two and a half hour wait, and we didn't handle their experience when they walked in the door. And as much as we tried, they felt like we we weren't hospitable, let's say. And so I I'd go out of my way, they haven't even spent a dime, but we'll send them a gift certificate. Come back and visit us, right? Because because um they made the choice of walking in the door, and and we're gonna have to take it on the chin and say, somehow we weren't able to get them in, and somehow we disappointed them. We told them 20 minutes and it took 40 minutes, or we told them an hour, it took an hour and a half. So, you know, um, but but you know, I think these reviews are really, really important and you should try. And and um you can't win everybody's opinion um in a positive way, but you should try.

Brett Linkletter: 1:06:05

100%. Is there something that you're doing now that has been, in your opinion, wildly successful because of where the world's at today, such as like AI, right? Is there are you guys doing something today that you have found to be such a winning new whether marketing strategy, front of house strategy or whatever that you got that you weren't doing early on? Is and is is there can you share this with us? Is there something that you have found that has really blown your mind in any kind of way whatsoever?

Babak Bina: 1:06:36

Um there besides the technology and gathering the data for us to be able to take care of our guests even better the next time they come, there there hasn't been any sort of magic wand. It's it's ours in the restaurant. Yeah, it's me not being in Miami, unfortunately. It's me um, you know, getting home and saying, geez, that was that was a 16-hour day. I'm I'm tired. I can't, you know, and then get up the next day and be be the first one in uh the restaurant and the last one out sometimes. Or so you know, I think that I think that those um those are what makes make us successful. I I don't have a magic wand that has been helpful for us. It's just been uh, you know, just a lot of um sweat and tear of war.

Brett Linkletter: 1:07:24

No, but I but I appreciate that because it seems like everyone wants a a shortcut or uh to wave a magic wand and it's just not the re it's just not reality.

Babak Bina: 1:07:32

It just isn't in my opinion, it doesn't exist because you know if you are talking about an ethos and if you're talking about a culture but you're not working at it, yeah, then then you can't achieve it. You can't just uh you can't just imagine it and it and it appears.

Brett Linkletter: 1:07:49

Yeah, no, I I I totally get it. Um what about like if you look back on what you've done, right? Is there any words of advice you'd you share with your younger self as maybe things you would have done differently? I mean, uh as you started this whole journey where you're at today, is there something you would have done differently knowing what you know today early on?

Babak Bina: 1:08:11

You know, admire those who who um it's funny, I look back and I'm like, well, I kind of knew what I wanted to do because I was about to say, you know, my my older son is an actor and he knew at seven he wanted to be an actor. And my younger son is a wrestler, and um he gave up acting. He was a child actor also. He gave up um acting and soccer, he was a great soccer player, but he's he's a wrestler and he goes to NYU and wrestles for NYU and and um he knows he wants to be in real estate finance and he's you know doing everything he can, including buying real estate, and he's not even 20. And I think that those convictions are are what you need to stick with. Um, an old friend of mine said to me that I will invest um in people. I have never invested in ideas. Um and his name is Chad Gifford, um, former CEO of Bank of Austin, um, that merged and became Bank of America. He also merged uh Bay Bank, which was a local bank in New England, merged with Bank of America. Um, anyway, um Chad gave the money to Bob Kraft to buy the Patriots, and he believed in Bob Kraft's passion for wanting to bring the Patriots back uh to New England and making them be successful. And he lent them the money to to go ahead and do that. So I think that you know, I didn't have that luck when I started my restaurant. No banks wanted to give me any money, so it was it was bootstrapping it, uh literally building it with my own hands, doing the contracting. Um and so, you know, it it's it's when you believe in something, um you you you'll go for it, and you have to imagine yourself at a later time in five years from now and ten years from now, and have that goal for yourself and say this is where I want to be. The power of mind is incredible, and I don't think that I would be where I am without my mind suppressing the pain, whether it was emotional from the loss of my country, or whether it was the pain that I felt in my feet and my back, um, and to be able to persevere through that or or the failures, you know. I mean, uh failures like we started early on, those teach you things, those bad reviews are are a failure. That's a moment in time that you weren't perfect, and you need to learn from that if you can. And so those things are really the things that one needs to focus on, yeah. And dream, dream big, go for it. You know, you you cannot have any regrets. There are no regrets in not having done something that you could have or shoulda, and you just do it. You just do it.

Brett Linkletter: 1:11:21

Well, you you you obviously it really embody what I feel like is just like overall resilience. Um, I see what yeah, you know, you totally do. I mean, I can feel it. I almost get like the chills when you talk about this stuff. And I it's funny because right before this podcast, I was talking with my fulfillment team. So we we have two we have two companies. One is called Dyneline, which is a restaurant marketing agency. And we've been around since 2015. Um and then Dishrio is is our marketing tech product, uh, which only went public January of this year. So it's it's brand new. Um and uh I spoke with my fulfillment team, and we're transitioning as a company from on the agency side, we we service our clients. We do everything for you. You don't have to rip the finger, we take care of everything. We're like an outsource DMO. And we're transitioning to this SaaS business where we need our customers to do the thing. Right? And you gotta do the work. You gotta the restaurant owner has to do the thing, right? Um it's a it is It is a totally different business model, as you could imagine, right? And it is surprising to me the amount of restaurant owners who aren't willing to put in the work to learn the thing to accomplish what it is. But yet you came here at 13, very tough situation, started as a dishwasher, and built yourself up to where you are today. You had a lot of things that you personally had to do, and you didn't get the funding, you fought through it. You you you fought through being a dishwasher, which we all know that is a tough job to have, to say the least. And and and I hug I hug our dishwashers.

Babak Bina: 1:13:10

I love them.

Brett Linkletter: 1:13:11

Yeah, I mean it it is a job. I uh I worked back in high school at BJ's Pizza for a year. And uh I did some dishwasher, I worked for a house as a as a boss boy, I was a host. So I I I I know what it's like working in those those types of jobs as well. And and it's but I respect what you've done. And it's it's surprising to me though that there are this many people that aren't willing to do even the little thing sometimes. A lot of people they have this big goal and big dream, but but they're just simply not willing to put the work in to accomplish it, right? And I've seen that a lot. Um, and a lot of people come to this on the agency front and they say, you know, I I'm I'm making 200,000 a month, but we should be doing 400,000 a month. And I'm like, that's a big jump. Okay. Like $200,000 a month. And it's we do our absolute best to get some people there, but that is that is a tough job when this person also is not willing to help whatsoever or put in any kind of work to get there. Yeah, that's um it's brutal. Uh oh gosh, that's tough. Yeah, yeah. And it's it's it is more common than you think, unfortunately. But it but then I meet people like yourself who have surpassed way more than just trying to figure out some little software, right? And have done all these things, and you can clearly see the difference in those who are succeeding and those who haven't. It's the ones that we're willing to put in the work despite running into all the things that we know go along with running a restaurant, of course.

Babak Bina: 1:14:39

Um so I think a lot of this comes from, you know, I I'm willing to bet that those who are successful in any business, right? In any business, um you use the word resilience. And I think that I appreciate that because I think that it does come down to um not taking a no for an answer, right? Um, I look at my son as a wrestler or my other son as an actor. They get the door slammed on them as actors all the time, right?

Brett Linkletter: 1:15:18

Oh, yeah.

Babak Bina: 1:15:18

Rejection, rejection, rejection, rejection. There's one in a million chance that you're gonna get this part, but they study the line, they memorize it, they become that character, they show up, and then they don't even they don't even get a callback. They they don't even get a courtesy call to say, oh, you don't fit the part because they're too busy, they're moving on, right? So he has to build this zero z resilience and thick skin to be able to move forward, right? Yeah, and then and then you you know, a wrestler that gets on a mat that took the entire week getting up at five o'clock in the morning, practicing, and then going to the gym at seven o'clock at night and doing all the stuff and gets on the mat and loses it, and then goes back at it again, right? So those are the things that an immigrant has already learned. It's in their DNA. It's someone who has come from an underprivileged um you know background and um, or worse, like me, where they were privileged and they lost everything and you build it back up. I know for a fact, I know for a fact that if I lost everything in my life, I could still put a roof over my head, feed my family, and I could be a dishwasher. I heck, I know how to do tile work because I taught myself how to do that when I was flipping condos. I know how to paint, I know how to don't tell anyone, but I've done wiring. I'm not an electrician. So, you know, the bottom line is those resiliencies have to be in your in your thoughts. And um, it's a lot, I get it. As a small business, you just want to succeed. You see others around you succeeding. Don't worry about other people, just focus on yourself, focus on what it is that you need to achieve today. Get through today and think about tomorrow and then and then plan. And you know, make a list of things that you want to achieve every day. Be organized. Think about the things that matter to you and put them in the forefront and look at that list every so often to say, here's where I am this week, this is where I want to be next week, and set those personal goals. And if you have a staff, share it with your staff. Because, you know, as your staff gets bigger, that's the hardest part for us. How do you keep it unified when you've got you know a big group of people that you're trying to manage for them to be on the same focus and energy as you are?

Brett Linkletter: 1:17:51

Totally.

Babak Bina: 1:17:52

Um, I don't have a problem recharging. I I I'm ready to go. I'm energizer buddy in the morning. But I think that it's it's tough to bring everybody along with you. But yeah, you need communication, communication, communication.

Brett Linkletter: 1:18:04

What what what feels you the most? Where do you get your energy from?

Babak Bina: 1:18:07

I mean, not like some coffee in particular, but like where you know You know, I think surrounding myself with people that are that are loving to me. Um you know, get rid of people that are toxic in your life.

Brett Linkletter: 1:18:20

Yeah.

Babak Bina: 1:18:20

Um, sometimes you can't because they're family members, but you just suppress that. You you kind of make those interactions maybe a little bit less. Um, you know, I'm lucky that that's not the situation for me. But you know, you surround yourself with with loved ones, and um you have it's a it's an old Persian religious. Uh I'm not very religious, by the way. I'm born Muslim. My wife is Jewish. So, you know, we we have our own little United Nations with my Italian brother-in-law and my German other brother-in-law. Um, you know, I think loving people around you and spreading that love is is energizing. Bad thoughts, bad deeds, and speaking badly. Those are the things that are the core of the Zoroastrianism, um, which I'm not, but but that religion is, I think, really symbolizes um from the era of Buddhism in having good thoughts, good thoughts will come. In in doing good deeds, good good things will come to you. I've always been involved with nonprofit. I met my beautiful wife do nonprofit work, and we created our own nonprofit 16-year-old days. And we help kids with special needs. Um, and we use horses. We do equine therapy, it's called being a farm center. And um, you know, doing things that no one else is watching, right? You're not doing it because your camera's on you, you're doing it because that's your core belief. It's because who you want to be, it's it's who you want to exemplify. And I'm so proud that my boys um, you know, think of me as their idol and they want they want to be me. And uh, I want them to be better than me. So I'm I'm proud. of them and and um those are the things that i think will will give you energy by surrounding yourself with people that will love you uh regardless and you also will tell you the truth you know i you know my wife will tell me hey get off your high horse or i think it's i think it's i think what you're saying and i guess what i'm hearing too is is is love family and community ultimately yeah right totally and go out of your way to do something good for someone else you know yeah pause for a moment and don't just don't let yourself sometimes be in the weeds because I do so many different things it allows me to get out of necessarily the restaurant business so I can actually think um I I used to do you know dangerous sports and as a result it it allowed me to have a clear mind um and therefore when I when I showed up it was like having gone on vacation because my mind is like had to stop because I had to focus on something that was potentially you know life threatening what was what was a sport you did I mean downhill skiing um playing polo um you know things that you know at any moment if you're not focused uh one wrong turn on a downhill and you could be paralyzed or yeah you you could you could fall off the horse and you know unfortunately be paralyzed so it's it's it's crazy so uh I won't spend too much time I know we're almost out of time basically so what one of my best friends when I was in college I went to USC yeah and um great school yeah it's awesome time uh good friend of mine named my Johnny Strange he from Malibu was an extreme sports athlete uh he did um he'd be annoyed with me by calling it this but I don't remember the proper name you know like the squirrel suit flying thing oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah holy shit he did that that is the most dangerous sport in the world um he did uh sorry it's wingstoot is what it's called the proper name he'd be kicking me if he heard that so it's just bleep that out just just cut that out yeah it's he did it's called base jumping wings wing suit base jumping so not jumping out of a plane or a helicopter or a hot air balloon but literally off of a cliff off the rocks and and then and you you actually get get really close to the to the rock yeah so there is a 25% death rate for every time you jump yeah one in five I wouldn't be able to get life insurance due for that yeah I don't think you can so uh it's I don't want it I don't want this to this sound to be sad I mean it's been it's been years since but he actually passed away oh I'm sorry this this was in my mid-20s it's been years but uh I'm doing that what's that what was he was he in the process of doing that in the middle of doing he was in Switzerland doing bass yeah bass jumping and two weeks up to the trip I remember him telling me something that always stuck with me and he's like I said Johnny you don't you know you don't you don't have to do this like because he was actually pretty nervous about this trip in particular this was the one trip that killed him was there a documentary done on him there there was actually yeah I saw it okay I remember him yeah yeah yeah so my God based in Malibu and you don't know what happens until the end in a documentary it's it's it's so sad but I remember him saying kind of what used to it reminded me of that because he said he did you know uh motorcycle race races like extreme super fast uh he would do the bass jumping and he would say in like a world of craziness and everything happening today and everything in my life this is my this is my time where I actually get that piece and can just lock in.

Brett Linkletter: 1:23:36

And he he became it became his meditation kind of thing. Right. And so he got he got so wound up into it and I I've always thought about that but when you when you're truly pursuing something you absolutely love whether it's an extreme sport your business or whatever it is you and you can truly lock in. That is where you've you've really somehow found peace within yourself and kind of a stillness I guess or focus. And uh it reminded me of what you what you were just saying.

Babak Bina: 1:24:03

Precisely that that's exactly it's it's a it's um it's hard to describe it but it's like a frozen time period that you can actually hear your own breath yes as as you are doing what you're doing. And your thoughts are so clear and purposeful in what it is you're doing and on horseback and there is a there is a cadence between the horse and your riding and swinging that mallet that is just um it's un un undescribable it's like you're you're feeling the hoofs on you because you're just so one with the horse.

Brett Linkletter: 1:24:46

And now I was not a professional player by any stretch but um you know the the couple of falls like put me out for a little bit and and it and it's uh you know at any moment no I was I was too young to think of that and I and I um but it was early on in my uh restaurant career so it was very helpful because you know as you might tell sometimes I get a little excited and get but I man I can appreciate I gravitate towards dangerous things sometimes too I think it's maybe somewhat of a like an instinct of us entrepreneurs.

Babak Bina: 1:25:21

I mean we we're risk takers by just it's in our DNA almost to some degree right for sure um but yeah I I can appreciate that because I it it reminded me of that and it when you are truly locked in and you you you have that feeling that's it's it's undescribable almost you know I mean yeah yeah um so man I mean this is this has been an an awesome chat Bobic I mean I I I learned a lot I know our audience has um I guess just kind of like closing thoughts here like what's is there a part of your story that that just hasn't been told yet like what what do you think will define you and your business over the next decade what what are you guys looking to do what's like the what's the future look like for you guys um you know I think much of it has been said in and what I have tried to describe that um we want to do more of things that we love doing and we want to do passion projects that um include those around us that want to grow have wanted to grow with us and will grow with us and you know life is again my my dad died at 60 so um my goal has been to live beyond his youthful years and um I'm about to make that turn so I start thinking about you know what have I done in life what have I achieved and I think that I take pride in in what my wife and I have have created with being a farm center and what my partners business partners and I have achieved with um in a very short period of time as well as my sister who was my business partner and retired last uh in 2023 24 um in being kind to people and allowing uh the space for them to be who they are and to to to feel like a human being and and not just some employee or number if one might refer to it. But I think that you know we want to do more of that. We want people to be uplifted around us we want them to and obviously we want to be successful but I think that um success comes with hard work as we've talked about and it and it takes effort and it takes a village for us to get there. We wouldn't be where we are without um our staff because they are they are you know I have it easy to be honest with you I'm I'm the least uh needed guy in in the restaurant I'm I'm happy to lend a hand to whoever needs it at that night at the restaurant that I'm in. They're the ones that are putting in all the hard work and I we couldn't do it without them.

Brett Linkletter: 1:28:00

So we want to do more for them we want to be there for them and we want to grow uh for them so uh we'll continue to do things that make us tick that make us have fun um together and uh and with a growing staff that we have um yeah that's awesome man yeah that is that is incredible you should you should do more public speaking that's incredible that's really I got the chills again man that is so incredible so well Bobek I I gotta come visit you guys in Boston because you're guys coming incredible um come on it's gotta be sometime next year because I'll I'll be I'm actually leaving to Brazil next week and we'll be gone until mid-January. So okay anytime after that we'll we'll come by let's let's set it up let's set it up uh 100 you have my number um shoot me up and we we have a project that uh takes off ground um uh next year and and so we'll coordinate you know what we're gonna do yeah and uh love to have you up here that would be incredible and if you're anytime down in Miami please let me know uh I I I I I am definitely gonna ring you up yeah yeah 100% man we'll appreciate everything today and uh we'll be in touch real soon then thanks a lot great to see you you too take care