PODCAST – OLIVIA ORMOS

I've seen some brands that are that are using some AI photos on their website strange. And then it's completely different in store, and and that's just messed up.

It happened. I literally sent the picture to Uber Eats. I was like, but you just, like, totally catfished me.

Yeah.

This is, like, catfish this is a catfish curry.

Like Hi.

My name is Brett Linkletter, CEO and cofounder of DineLine, a restaurant growth agency. We help restaurant brands of all sizes grow and scale to new heights, whether that means opening new stores or increasing revenue at existing locations. We have a done for you model where we take care of all the work for our clients on the marketing front, and we also have a unique software solution called Dishio, which allows owners to showcase their restaurant in the best light possible online while also turning guest interactions into data to increase profits. Right now, you're listening to our podcast, Restaurant Misfits, where we'll discuss all things related to restaurant marketing, management, and everything else in between growing a restaurant business.

Scaling a restaurant today takes much more than having grit and hustle. In this age, it's about utilizing the newest technology, educating yourself on new platforms and trends, and having a deep understanding of how this industry is changing. This podcast is dedicated to keeping you up to speed with the latest and the greatest through interviewing the biggest and the best in the restaurant industry. As always, we appreciate you for being here, and we hope you enjoy the show.

Alright. Olivia, how are you?

I'm feeling good. How are you?

Good. Good. We're feeling great. I'm I'm so excited to chat with you, and I'm also excited because we have Raffi here on the podcast.

I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having us.

Absolutely. And for those of you who don't know who Raffi is, Raffi is our our head of growth and partnerships here at Visio.

And Olivia is our guest today. And Olivia, you've done so many interesting things.

It kinda blows my mind that you're basically running three different companies at this moment.

I still am. Yes.

Which which is crazy. Right? Like, I which is crazy.

For those, watching and listening that don't know who you are, could you just give us, like, a quick intro of of kind of what you've been up to the last couple years?

Of course. So I grew up here in Miami. What up? Three zero five. Any of my Miami listeners.

Went to the University of Florida, also. Go Gators.

And when I was in school, I was really active working. So I had internships. Internships. I  
had summer jobs, spring break jobs.

Anybody who would let me work, I worked. So once I left school, it was just natural that I think I went very quickly on a more of an entrepreneur type path than, like, a ton of jobs. So I had, one really great job where I was the director of marketing at a cool nightclub here called Bed. I don't know if you guys grew up here.

Yeah. You you would know Bed.

I haven't heard of it. It was it was literally like beds.

Like, instead of, like, buying a table, you would, like, buy a bed and have dinner in the bed.

It's still around?

No. It was it was an era that was just, like, you could it was so hard to get in. It was, like, celebrities. We were, like, in a bed next to, like, somebody every single night. It was a cool concept. Interesting.

Yeah. So, I did that.

Yeah.

Yeah. And then, quickly started my company, in two thousand ten, which was called OO and Co, still around.

It evolved from being a primarily events driven agency to evolving into working with influencers, branding, social strategy, content. As the world of marketing evolved, we evolved. Mhmm. And I also started an event called model volleyball at the same time. I was starting my agency, so each of them really played, in favor as an anchor to one another. So I'd meet a cool brand that sponsored volleyball, and then they'd become a client of the agency and vice versa.

And then more recently through working in the influencer marketing space at OO and Co, we realized there was just a ton of pain points that we were experiencing as as an agency. And there really wasn't a turnkey solution that was also really kinda cool and sexy that was merging the gap, bringing influencers and brands together in a really positive way.

So that's when I decided to launch and build my own platform, Maven, which is the third business.

So so tell me more about that that pain point you're experiencing because I I think it's we're gonna dive into this.

But, basically, a a lot of clients that we work with, restaurant owners. Right?

Of course.

They're they're I don't know. They they they're kind of they don't know where to approach influencer marketing. I think maybe some of the pain points that you've experienced and you've solved for yourself, they're also experiencing.

So talk to us about what are the pain points that you've seen in the space.

Yeah. I think overall influencer marketing when you're operating a business is an overwhelming task. That's why I think we're seeing even the the heavy hitters, the bigger companies that are highly invested in influencer marketing even have a dedicated staff member with the word influencer even in their title, not just working with agencies. So in the case of of what we were doing, I was working with a ton of restaurants.

We still do. And it was like we were upkeeping everything manually. So as an agency, we had a database. It was on Google Docs.

We were, you know, inviting these people in.

We had to message each and every person personally. Like, that take took a lot of bandwidth from us managing reservations. Oh, now I need to, you know, cancel. Like, what am I posting? Am I taking a look at it? Like just to try to It's a lot.

Create some kind of campaign.

Right? A lot to even, like, think about when you're worried about revenue for your business, staff for your business, and just keeping the doors open, which is already, like, a whole to do. So I think a lot of people it's normal to be very discouraged and be like, I'm not gonna deal with that. But there's so many ways you can do it.

What about what about restaurant owners who, like, like okay.

So if you're working with, like, a chain, like, we've we've done a lot of IHOP locations, for example. Mhmm. And, like, hey. They're they're an international chain.

Right? So, like, they're probably open minded to working with influencers that are all over the world. Not a big deal. What about on a local level?

Like, how do you how do you approach that, would you say?

So I think people get really excited about influencers with big followings.

Mhmm.

But on a local level, I like to recommend the smaller followers, not even smaller, but just the more targeted Mhmm.

Type of influencers that are based here so we know primarily their followers are also based here. Yeah.

So you might get excited that this person has three million followers, but maybe they're all in Brazil.

How is that really helping you on a more level?

Not at all.

Right? And with Maven, we're able to know that where those audience followers live, so to give the best shot to that restaurant.

Mhmm. Makes sense. And off the back of that, what would you say are some of, like, the key metrics that a restaurant owner should be looking for when it comes to influencer acquisition and campaign rollouts? So I think there's there's two mindsets to have.

Mindsets to have as a restaurant.

I think there's overall brand awareness and keeping yourself relative to the market.

You know, if new places are opening every single day in a cool market, especially like Miami.

Mhmm.

So I think there's there's two different campaigns to run.

Right? I think there's one that's really dedicated to brand awareness, constantly being top of mind. Like, especially if you've been around a long time, you wanna constantly be like, even though x y z open, we're still the best.

So constant flow of people that are just coming in.

But then I think there's also targeted influencer campaigns. Maybe you're launching a happy hour. Maybe you're launching, you know, a big campaign around something really specific on a new menu. Then maybe we go after really specific food influencers that we invite in to post about those specific moments.

Question question for you too.

So this actually, we had another influencer on the podcast recently I told you about. And I I'm so curious because okay.

Through Meta now, you you can run an ad. Let's just say you work with some influencer.

Yep.

They post about some new great burger at some new restaurant that just opened. That brand could also take that content and actually, through their page, run an ad with that influencer's face on it. Do you guys do stuff like that too?

Yeah. So that's classified as user generated content. Mhmm. So we have tons of companies that come to us just for that purpose.

But and are they running it through that influencer's page or through the brand page?

It's been both. So there's sometimes they're commissioning, like, hey. We just want your content.

You don't even need to post it so that they can dictate what they want.

They pay for that content.

Is that what's the price point? Is that a better price?

Because they're not rich in Usually usually, it's a lower price point if you're actually not asking the influencer to post.

Got it.

So we do a ton of user generated content campaigns.

But then there's also, sometimes we see it goes both ways where, like, they are posting and delivering the content, which is a much usually is a higher because here's here's what's interesting too for me.

So, like, I I had a friend back when I lived in LA. Thank god I'm not there anymore. But but, basically, he was he was, working on an app that was kind of like a combination of, like, Yelp meets, like, TikTok for, like, the restaurant and travel space.

Mhmm.

And it was it was so interesting because I I was I invested a little money into him, so I was a little bit invested into seeing how the thing would go. And he what he did in the beginning was he worked with about thirty influencers on TikTok.

Yep.

And I I've never done a whole lot of influencer campaigns in the past. I mean, years ago, I did some stuff, but nothing close to what you guys have touched, obviously.

And we took thirty influencers, and they posted about their product. And, basically, all these influencers were saying, it says, like, Yelp meets TikTok. It's an amazing way to see the vibe of a restaurant or hotel or whatever.

We then found out of the thirty influencers that, like, three or four of them, their content just really popped off, got, like, hundreds of thousands of views. I was like, okay. Let's take that content Now repurpose it for an ad. It's already proven success at the organic level. Chances are, if we just put some ad dollars behind it, we can do some pretty incredible things. Yep. And so we did that.

And, I mean, he he got, like, twenty thousand new sign ups in, like, two weeks from this.

Now, unfortunately, the the app's not around, and it wasn't very sticky, and there was some problems to it. But but but people signed up. And I've always thought, like, there's there's really something there to test content through influencer through influencers and then see what works and then put money behind that. Because so many people try an ad. They're like, oh, I've tried all these different ads. Nothing works. I was like, so try it on organic level.

Yeah. I think people underestimate, like, when you potentially even recognize that influencer when you're running the ad. Like, oh, and then we'll stop just to see if it's that person that maybe they've been following.

Totally.

So I think there's also a big, you know, wave right now where you're seeing the food influencers, especially the big ones, like, having to force themselves into their own content. Mhmm. Like, their faces, like, normally, it's just about the food, the food that's It's a really good point. You're right.

Seeing influencers be like, hey. Let's make a sandwich. And, like, they're putting themselves in the content Right. Because they're their own personal brand amongst the food.

You're totally right.

I think that speaks to just a bigger picture of building authentic partnerships. And, you know, when when an influencer's personality really shines through in the content indirectly, it's gonna have a much better, overall effectiveness of the campaign itself.

They're giving that content to you from their point of view.

Mhmm. Yeah. So it doesn't look staged. It doesn't look like there was a photo shoot, and we did some content.

It it's like, oh, no. Like, I went. This was my experience. And I think that's the type of content that works the best, especially with some voice over added to it.

So I think just knowing you as as long as I have and and following your work, I think that's one thing you do very well is is, pairing those, brands and influences together in an authentic way that really shines through. So through a restaurant owner's lens, what would be some tips or some advice you would have for them that were kinda looking to replicate those same campaigns, but don't have the experience that you might necessarily do in in that room?

Well, I think the easiest way up I can say is to hire Maven because we've made we've made it that easy.

Maven. Yeah.

It's we've made it that easy. Understand.

I think one of the biggest pain points that I noticed and it was a it was actually a restaurant group I was working with that was, like, my biggest pain point Mhmm.

When I created Maven, to be honest.

Interesting.

Because we were on a constant flow of, like, deliverables of, like, how many influencers had to go dine Mhmm. At those restaurants every week. So once we blew through our initial network of creators, we were constantly having to, like, do a ton of outbound where with Maven, these influencers every week can literally log in to the platform, see the restaurants, see the times, see the deliverables. There's no gray area that's funny.

Like, if you come in, are you gonna post? What are you gonna post? How many? Totally.

Sometimes it's like a weird banter when you're trying to build a relationship Yeah.

With an influencer asking for these, like, you know, more strict things, like, what's gonna happen, especially if I'm not paying you.

Well, I think I think to your point earlier, earlier, the, like, the time to do this.

I mean, I I Yeah. I'm talking I'm talking to brands every day. Right? And, I I'm not really, like, selling the front lines anymore. But, I am talking to a couple brands that I'm very interested in, one of which I'm talking to, the guy has seven locations.

He's opening up another, like, ten next year, and he's got huge growth potential. And his per location revenue is is incredible. Mhmm.

He's been talking to me for, like, four months, and he's very interested and and says all the things that we wanna hear. But they sometimes these brands move so slow. And I'm like, dude, in these four to six months that we've just been having these conversations, you you would have maybe doubled your sales by now. Yeah.

I think when it comes to influencers, people are hesitant because they just don't know. Yeah. Or sometimes the alternative is maybe they, like, tried something and it just didn't work because they didn't have enough guidance Totally. On how to do it right. So then they got decided.

But how do you how do you guide that?

How do you get someone to feel more comfortable that that that they will know that there is a specific outcome that they can expect potentially? How do you how do you guide someone through that conversation?

It's a mixture of a couple different pieces. I think it's one, it's power of repetition.

You can't just, like, may wave a magic wand and think that, you know, influencers are gonna make your dreams come true.

Like, maybe True. You know, you'll get a heavy hitter in there. Like, my girl, Sammie Schnurr, the naughty fork, I've seen it the most unbelievable thing happen time and time again. Well, she'll go into a local restaurant, shoot a main dish, even making of it in the kitchen. You know, she pioneered that shit.

Yep. Yeah.

And then boom, puts it up, and that page will gain thousands of followers, book reservations.

So I think there's there's the power of repetition of getting people. Like, it's not just Sammy coming in. It's like how many other people are gonna come in after her to keep that momentum for you?

Question for you on that too. So, like, I I love what you're saying too because, like, it's the power of repetition truly in in every aspect of marketing. Right? Like, you you gotta consistently power through amazing content, talk about your brand messaging, promote whatever is special about your brand. Right? Do you do you ever guide brands into, let's just say, someone in the partnership with Nutty Fork, it just ripped?

Yeah.

What do you think about just, like, continuously, not continuously for months, but reposting content, I don't know, three, four, five times?

I've seen that sometimes where It's the same piece of content?

The same piece of content.

I've seen that a couple times, and it's it's interesting what I've seen as far as success. Some influencers I've seen that have done that Mhmm. They'll post something. It's it's got, like, ten thousand views.

Mhmm. They'll kind of rejig it slightly. Yeah. It'll get a million. They'll rejig it again.

It'll even better.

I've seen that mostly on TikTok versus Instagram where, like, they're the reposting it a few times pops off, doesn't pop off. There's, like, a weird, you know, array of what happens. But I think to go back to that other question when you asked me, like, what is most important, I think it's repetition, but I also think it's it's being able to have access to data. Like I said, like, you know Right. Right?

And and knowing Talking to the right people here.

Right.

Yes.

My data daddies right now.

So I think, you know, like, we give those insights.

So if Raffy applied to go to a restaurant and the restaurant was considering his request via via Maven, like, you'd be able to see that his followers are, you know, ninety percent in the US and maybe seventy percent of those are in Florida. And of Florida, maybe forty percent of those are in Miami. So, like, you really get to pick the people that matter.

For sure.

And I think that restaurants just sometimes get really excited by, like, the glamour of the person, you know, the hype of the person. Fit.

But it's not the right fit.

So then they end up comping a ton and being like, where's the people?

Yeah. Yeah.

And I we don't have to mention the brand, but we spoke about it at our event, right, when about the other influencer company that I'm not super fond of.

I think they're the definition of what you're saying. They just throw out any influencer that has a following, and it's oftentimes not the right fit.

Right.

So the brand doesn't get the result, and then they're like, oh, influencers don't work. Right?

I think it's normal that people feel that way. I think it's more normal than not, honestly. And I think a lot of people and that's why I felt so passionate about building something that was really gonna help brands instead of, like, handicap them more into thinking, like, there's so much pressure to do influencer marketing, but I don't know how to do it.

It's like we help you do it at the same time.

For sure. So let let's talk real quick about, like, big events. Yeah. And, obviously, Raf, you've done a lot of big events.

Right? Yeah. I do. I'd love yeah. I'd love kinda both your your feedback on this because so, look, again, restaurants of all sizes from small mom and pops to international brands.

You've You've done a lot of big events.

You've been to a lot of events.

How how do we how do we use influencers to promote some of these these massive events, and how does that differ versus on a very local level?

Yeah. So we're using influencers across, you know, multiple phases of the event. So a lot of times we see it on a pre promotional, campaign basis. So maybe it's a festival or somebody that really wants to drive ticket sales.

Mhmm.

And that's their main goal. Yeah. Once influencers get there, who cares? You're already there. The tickets can't be sold anymore.

So, like, usually, if if it's the marketing campaign around ticket sales, then we really emphasize the pre promo and and bringing in influencers to support driving traffic to a purchase of tickets or or sign ups or something like RSVPs. Then there's other people that maybe just want cool people in the room. Like, we don't it's a private event. It's VIP.

We're not selling anything to them. We just wanna make sure that our party was was the coolest. And the people that that came were were great influential influential people and faces and stuff.

I see.

And then there's the third piece that's like, okay. Now we need to potentially, like, post event, make sure we're driving something additionally. Right? So sometimes we'll see an event say, well, we have to take care of our sponsors. So when these influencers come, they're gonna tag the event naturally, but can they also tag our sponsors?

I see.

So that so that there's something else happening for, like, that event to take home with to to drive, you know, their own revenue continuously with brands.

Yeah.

So And I think there's some sorry to cut you off there, Olivia.

I think there's some really good case studies on how to do that very well and then some very, notable ones that did it terribly. Like, if you look at Firefest, for example, they were writing these massive six figure checks for anyone with a significant following on Instagram, and that crowd was then reflective in that marketing strategy. Right? So you had all these, you know, somewhat pretentious people showing up expecting to hang out with, you know, Kim k and and Jai Rool and all of this. Yep. And, obviously, it turned into being a nightmare. So I think, for example, what I love about model model volleyball and and a lot of, you know, my prior event brands as well is that, you know, the best strategy in terms of reselling future events is retention, and the best way to create retention is to create a really cool authentic experience.

So, if you are going about it that way and attracting the right people, then there's a good chance your event brand is gonna have longevity into the future. Whereas look at Firefest, and I mean, ironically they actually did just announce they were doing it again, or at least, and he's gonna give it a go, but I think we all know how that's gonna end. But my point being, I think you kinda have to reverse engineer what what energy you wanna create at the event before you start targeting influencers and and For sure.

That and strategizing on that front.

Yeah. I mean, my bread and butter forever was always events. Like, that's where my passion was. And Totally. Obviously, I evolved into also being an influencer kind of expert. But, yeah, I mean, I have an an event that's going on fifteen years.

That's incredible. I'm on top on that.

I'm on top of that now as well.

But, and and you know, we talked about before. I actually went to Fyre Festival. I was there.

I think I saw no one who went there.

I didn't know. My god. No offense.

What what no. Was it a nightmare? It was a total nightmare. Yeah. I did get a free trip out of it.

And, it was funny. Just quick story. I I was leaving Fyre Festival, and I got lucky leaving the island because the there was one plane, and there was way too many people that you couldn't leave Right. Straight up.

Lucky enough, I I I, met a couple new friends that happened to have a private jet, and I I got off the island. Oh. I'm not even joking you. I I don't know how that happened.

But, anyway, I got off the island, and it was funny. I got back. I called my credit card company, and I wanted to file for fraud. And I was like, hey.

I I want my money back for this ticket I bought. And they're like, how how do we know it's fraud? How can you, you know, whatever. And I said, are you on a computer?

And she's the woman at at Chase Bank was like, yes.

I was like, Google Fyre Festival and tell me it's not fraud.

How do you get me?

I know.

I was like, she was like, holy shit.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. Boom.

You got your money back because I got a free weekend in Miami out of it.

Well, I have back when I was living in LA.

This is actually this is actually a really good segue into something else I wanted to talk to you, Olivia, about, and that's navigating the challenges and risks that can be associated with a lot of these paid influencer campaigns.

I think a lot of restaurant owners especially are afraid of any backlash or missteps in PR that they might generate by coming across insensitive in their content or or putting something out there that didn't necessarily hit with with their audience.

Mhmm. So with that said, like, what how would you say the restaurant owners or or any business owner for that matter could, overcome the hurdles and, like, the fear of backlash from doing something that doesn't hit as intended?

So it's happened before. It hasn't happened too many times, but I've seen it where, like, the restaurant really just dropped the ball, when the influencer came. And the the genuine feedback was this was a bad experience. So you kinda have to just just take it for what it is when those moments happen and say, like, how can we improve?

Like, where did the experience go wrong? Was it the waiters? Was it the quality of the food? Was it it's the service?

Was it you know, the music was too loud.

Whatever the complaints was, like, it's about it's about feedback at that point because Totally right.

Right? And sometimes people are just people. Right? Like, they're gonna complain. It's gonna be what it is.

But I think the goal is you already know this person's important. You know they're coming. Like, how do we make it a thoughtful experience for them versus, like, anyone is sitting in that seat? And that's what I like to do, especially at, like, all of our dinner events is say, like, how do I make sure that, like, Brett knows that, like, that seat is for him?

Mhmm. And we wanna make sure he feels so special coming to our our dinners, our establishment, something like that. So a lot of the times we see, you know, restaurants even make, like, thoughtful custom menus with an influencer's name on it, like, things like that. So it's like, however much you care to invest in that person's experience, it's gonna come back.

Yeah. Those those details go along.

The more the more you put it, the more you're gonna go out.

For sure. Exactly.

No. I I think that's a really good point, though, because I think I mean, again, we haven't done nearly as much as you on the influencer side, but we have a lot of clients that have done influencer stuff. And I I feel like they've they've never even thought about what you just mentioned. Yeah. So so anybody listening no. Seriously. Like, if you're going to work with influencers, you gotta put time and attention into it to make sure they have a good experience.

Yeah. So maybe say, hey. Instead of going crazy and having ten people in, like, because you're so worried about so many people coming coming in Yeah. Maybe say, hey.

No. Let's target some specifics. Let's pay attention to what's happening. Let's see what, you know, what we can do to make these people feel really special.

Yeah.

Or, like, you know, a lot of the times these especially food influencers, like, they like to show something than what every other influencer is showing.

Yeah.

So it's like, what dish can we show that's, like, maybe hasn't been shot yet?

Sure.

Or what's different that they can do in the making of in the kitchen or, like, you know, something sexy that's more food porn ish that's gonna, like, go viral versus, like, here's my salad.

Right. It's a lot of a lot another time something that people screw up on. The choices of what they bring out to these influencers.

Got it.

Like, if you're just worried about being strapped and not making this a good experience, don't do the influencer dine at all.

Totally.

Because if you're gonna bring out something that's not photogenic Yeah.

That isn't exciting, like, you're not empowering that influencer Yeah. With anything to work with.

Totally. And I think it's also about managing expectations as well, at least, you know, I guess for my experiences in the past, I would say I would be so heavily dependent on these influencers and campaigns that I thought it was just the end all be all. And I would invest, you know, x amount in an influencer campaign, and it wouldn't affect sales the way that I initially intended.

And I would then put that all on what the influencer might have done wrong or right, when the reality is it's a two sided street. And just because you have an influential person in your restaurant or or in any business, it's not gonna be a rapid fire, you know, solution to instant overnight success.

It's about I think there's also strategy.

People miss that part completely. They just think like, oh, this person has thirty thousand followers. They're gonna come in. They're gonna post. Everyone's love us. Blah blah blah. But it's like, what did you do to make sure that that influencer For sure.

Was gonna have a good experience?

I I think, like and you have a lot of contacts with some of these big restaurant groups, and, obviously, you do too.

Mhmm.

Some of these big groups we've seen and, I mean, especially you being a native in Miami, you've seen this a lot here Yeah.

Over the years Yeah. Is is restaurants here that are giving their guests more than food, but a a wild, amazing experience too. Right? Yeah. I went to Smith and Wollensky recently for the first time Mhmm. At Sunset, beautiful restaurant.

Mhmm.

You know, they bring the steak out hanging.

The guy comes out with a torch. Yeah. I mean, it's an experience.

Yeah. Totally.

And what do people wanna do? They wanna take out their phones and and Instagram this thing and post a story?

I would say Miami, out of any other city in the world, probably moves the needle the most in terms of experiential dining. Totally.

Yeah. Vegas too.

Vegas too. Vegas too. But but but I think to your point, like, you you're giving advice on what brands should be doing with their influencers. But I think also, like like, restaurant wide, they should be doing with with their guests. Like, have something on your menu that's cool for your your customers to post about.

Yep. Right?

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Like, you can't expect an influencer that's coming that covers food. You give them below average items off the menu to shoot that there's nothing to it. How are they gonna make that shit look good?

Yeah. I mean, I'll I'll tell you our our biggest issue for our product, which you saw at our event. Mhmm. Right? Dischio, we have a digital menu product. And Yes.

We've done like, we've worked incredibly hard last two years perfecting this digital menu. But I'll tell you one of the biggest hang ups we get is clients use our menu, and the photos they're uploading to their menu are just, like, tremendous. I'm like, come on, guys. Yeah.

But but but, honestly, I just don't think people realize it's crappy. Yeah. I just don't think they know.

I think you're probably right.

You know?

And I think and I think it's just, like, them like, sometimes just learning that it's it's not it. You know? Like, you want this to sell?

Like, let's go side by side and show So so wait. When you're working with some of these brands and are are you I mean, you're you're giving them pushing back.

You're giving them the awesome yeah. They're giving that feedback. You're telling them this. Of course. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.

We're not just yes people. Like, we're like, hey. We're not just gonna take your money and tell you, sure. We'll do whatever you want.

Like Totally.

You hired us for a reason.

Right. That's good.

You know? That is good. Take it or leave it, but, like, this is what you should do.

That is good. Because you're not trying to just one hit acquit it with these campaigns. Right? It's it's in everyone's message for them to Totally. Be successful.

So do you ever guide your clients on the type of content before the shoot?

Of course. Okay. Amazing.

Of course.

What so what so, again, so let's just say, hey.

We're we're two restaurant owners. We got a we got a steakhouse, and, we don't have maybe the best looking steaks. They are delicious, but maybe they don't look so good. How will we have that conversation?

Well, I think that part, we can obviously show inspo from, like, other places that are performing really well For sure.

And say, hey. Look. This is what people gravitate towards. You know, smoke and sizzling and butter and all this good stuff that people wanna see if they're not gonna cook that stuff at their own house.

Totally.

Right? So I would say to the restaurant, hey. Let's try to rework some of the key dishes that we wanna bring out to make it a lot more photogenic for this purpose.

Mhmm.

Because somebody will see that, and then they'll the person who books the reservation will come in and be like, I want the steak. But if that steak doesn't look like the steak they saw in the video, then you also have a problem.

Yeah. One hundred percent.

Right? So Yes. You don't wanna disappoint somebody who sees it and it actually works.

And they're here for that item, and then that item doesn't For sure.

Doesn't hit. You know?

We're we're entering a really interesting stage in the world right now too with AI.

I mean, we've I've seen some brands that are that are using some AI photos Mhmm.

On their website. Very good.

And then it's completely different in in store, and and that's just messed up.

It happened to me even in, like, an Uber Eats order.

Yeah. Like, I I saw this new place. The pictures were amazing.

Yeah.

Like, they were colorful. There was this curry. Yeah.

It had, like, a beautiful I was like, oh my god.

I gotta order this.

Totally. It came. It did not look anything like it. I literally sent the picture to Uber Eats. I've never done this because I hate ranking on small restaurants.

I was like, but you just, like, totally catfished me.

Yeah.

This is, like, catfish this is a catfish curry.

Like, I'm not eating this.

Oh my god. The catfish curry.

And, obviously, they they they gave me my money back. But, like, yeah, to your point, like, you have to really make sure, like, the authenticity, like, is consistent Totally. Amongst, like, the content you're putting out and what you're delivering to a consumer.

A hundred percent. And I can give a really good example.

I'm a little bit biased, but my brother owns three restaurants in Southern California. So shout out Vibe Organic Kitchen and Juice on Instagram at eat drink vibe. And I think, his content, he does an incredible job job at really, just showcasing his food in in the right way online. And I think that's why he's one of the reasons why he's been successful and had such longevity in a really competitive landscape, is because, his the quality of his food shines through in his content. Yeah. And and that's you can't fake that. I think AI is not a substitution.

I think the another piece of the puzzle that people, like, sleep on is building relationships with the influencer versus just inviting them in. Right? And I think you get more when you ask for less.

That's such a good point.

I think that when you're becoming this dictator, like, we're giving you, you know, a table for two people. It's gonna be this, this, this. You only get one drink.

This like, when it becomes so, like, constrained, it's like, is this not supposed to be fun?

Like, aren't I supposed to be having a good time at your restaurant? Yeah.

So true.

So I think that, like, sometimes, like, the more leeway create like, creatively also that you give some of the people, especially the heavier hitters that you're inviting in potentially Totally.

Like, build a relationship with them.

Like So true.

So like like any industry, it's heavily relationship based. And, you know, speaking from firsthand experience, a lot of the influencers that I would hire originally to promote my events, that went on to becoming some of my closest friends over a three to five year period. Totally.

Then all of a sudden, they were they were promoting my shit for sure.

Wanted to come to your parties.

Right? So Yeah.

So I think, like, also, like, leaning into, like, commonalities with these influencers, like, what else you can you know, hey.

Let's get together. Like, it's not only about this. Like, I'm having this other thing. Like, how can I support you?

Like, do you have anything going up that you're you know, you wanna host?

You wanna do like, how do I help your brand? And I think a lot of people don't ask those questions. Yeah. Like, what's important to you? Yep. And how can I also help you versus, like, no? You're just here to help my my restaurant.

Yeah.

You're just here to post about my brand.

I mean, I'll I'll tell you a lot on our side too because we're we're hardcore advertisers. Right? And, same thing in our space. The the brands that put in more time and energy to building relationships with our company and our team and our account managers Yep. They get better results.

Yeah.

It's it's it's It's funny how that works. Right?

Yeah. Right.

It's but it's but I think it's a good point, and people don't think about it. I mean, it seems so obvious. Right?

Yeah. I but you would think because would think because you're a sales guy. So, like, it's obvious to you because, like, how you generate revenue is through building relationships. Yeah. But somebody who's not experienced, like, that is a foreign language.

Crazy to me.

It's just like, you know, somebody telling me, hey. You gotta cook this steak. That is foreign to me. Yeah.

Somebody be like, you don't know how to cook a steak?

I'm like, no. I don't.

Here here's here's what's interesting too. The average American checks their phones over three hundred times a day now. Right. Right?

So I we always say even in our sales pitch is like, look. You you have to be found online. People are making decisions where they're gonna eat before they go out and eat. They're not just walking around anymore aimlessly deciding where they go.

They probably have the reservation or they probably have an an idea of where they wanna go. Right? But they found that through where? Probably Instagram, Google, whatever.

And so these brands that aren't investing in stuff like your company or advertising or just being online in general, like, they're they're then then they wonder why they're not successful. Right? They wonder why.

I also think I empower these restaurant owners to say, like, do we have, like, a thousand raving fans? Like, do we have people that, like, worship us? Like, for me, I have a restaurant in Miami that I am part of their raving fans. Anytime I have to bring a client somewhere, I have to do something, I bring them to the same restaurant because the restaurant does not let me down.

And then if I'm not If anyone wanted to kill you, you're gonna be very hard to find.

Yeah. It's because it it the environment is is great. The food is consistently good.

Totally.

It's not too expensive, and the owners are, like, amazing. So it's just like Yeah. I go to Omakai.

That's that's where I go.

I is this in Coral Gables? They have a few locations.

The original was in Wynwood.

Okay.

Then they opened up in Coral Gables, like Coconut Grove area.

Okay. I And now Aventura.

I think this They don't even pay me, and I'm obsessed with that.

An excellent job. You're really the third person to mention this brand to me.

I I need to check them out.

Well, you wanna go?

Yeah. Yeah.

We should come out. You know what? They do the attention to detail is incredible.

Like, if you order from Uber Eats, the beautifully presented boxes that it comes in, they do a really good job.

Know what you're getting every single time.

Yeah. You know? No. You're totally right. Pat, question. So random. Have you been to Zach the Baker?

Yes. Bakery? Yes. Yeah.

Not on frequent, but I've been. What do you guys think about this place?

Couldn't couldn't come and haven't haven't had enough.

Okay.

I'm I'm a fan.

Yeah.

I okay. So I it's interesting.

So I I seen them all over the place.

I see their bread in all the grocery stores here, and I, like, I always drive by because I'm in Edgewater.

People love them. I I went recently. I was blown away.

Die.

If you go, like, on a Sunday morning, you're you're standing outside for at least a minute.

There's no chance. But I I wasn't I was okay. So I knew about the brand. Mhmm.

I I was very excited about trying their trying breakfast. I have never been there before. I went recently. Okay.

And I I never walked because of the lines. It was so stupid. But finally, you know what they did? They went on resi.

I saw you could book a reservation. I went the first day, had the best experience ever. But I think that's the other thing is it needs to be easy for someone to engage with your brand and book a reservation if possible. I don't know why so many of these brands I mean, look, I don't know.

They make it difficult.

Their website sucks. They're hard to find online or whatever it is. And I drove by them plenty and plenty of times, but I just I never went because it was just difficult to dine with them.

I think I think in even in Miami, like, parking's a factor.

Like, there's so many things that you think about when you're gonna choose where you're gonna go and what your day looks like.

Easy to dine with you.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Jeez. And I think sometimes find a menu that's, like, so intense and you're just like Yeah. What do I get?

I don't even wanna look at this menu.

Like, those overwhelming menus sometimes, I think Totally.

You know, don't work either.

And that's definitely one of the problems that we're trying to solve at Dishio as well is, simpl a lot of these places that have these extensive menus that are, like, almost like a novel to read.

Right?

So something as simple as a search feature digitally on that menu can alleviate a lot of that a lot of that that pain point.

So Have have you ever done anything specifically with your influencers on a campaign?

So, like, I know you said, like, getting ticket sales.

Right?

Mhmm.

What about, like, I don't know, giving out, like, some kind of offer or coupon or something for a restaurant? Have you guys done anything like that?

I think that that would if it was, like, coupon driven, it would probably cheapen Totally.

The brand on the restaurant side. But I do think we try to, like, elevate if we're gonna do something.

So, like, I wouldn't recommend a coupon, but I would say, you know, like, we're doing Complimentary drink or whatever on your first visit.

Yeah. Something like that's free.

Have you guys done that?

Not really.

I think it depends on the restaurant brand. Like, for some, like, QSRs, like, they might they might hit. But for some of these, like, higher end, more formal dining experiences, they tend to tend to shy away from from discounting.

Yeah. I mean, look. We we don't do a whole lot of discounts anymore either.

But years ago, we did a lot of discounts actually through ads into Facebook Messenger, and then people would basically opt in. We'd collect their first name, last name, email, phone number, and then they'd come into the restaurant, redeem this coupon.

And the only reason we did it is, god, back in, like, twenty nineteen, pre pre COVID days, the good old days, we would get opt ins for ten cents.

And we would get twenty five percent redemption. So it was forty cents to acquire a guest, and we could track it. And that's why we did the coupon because you could track it.

Price wise, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for most of these brands. And I think it does cheapen your brand over time, which is why we shy away from it. But I've always thought, like, for for restaurant tours who are like, I only wanna do something that's trackable.

I'm a numbers person, which, by the way, most restaurant owners, they say they're numbers people when it comes to advertising, but they've never been able to track this.

Mhmm. Right? Mhmm. I've always thought if there was if there was a tasteful way to do it through influencers, that would solve that pain point of trackability in in a lot more ways, though. I mean, if you could get an influencer to post something about your brand and say, hey. Look. We're doing some really special promotion for specifically Miami locals or whatever.

You know, click the link in my bio, opt in, and you're gonna get a complimentary glass of wine on your first visit.

I just think those things don't register.

They don't? Okay.

I don't think so.

We've never done it, so that's why I was just curious.

Yeah. No. I don't I don't think so. I don't I don't think people gravitate towards towards small things like that, like a drink, a this. Like, a drink.

What about maybe something bigger?

Yeah. I mean, it's totally possible. Yeah. Totally possible.

Again, we we've never done it at that level, but I I was just always curious if for some people that were, I don't know, hesitant, but wanted something trackable. Well, let's talk about that real quick.

Well, trackable, I can tell you this. Like, it is, like, something in the restaurant world right now specifically where, like, it's frustrating. So if you went in and you posted, like, they might see a spike in reservations, but they can't really know that it was because of you. We can assume, but we don't really know.

Totally.

So, like, we're talking to a big tech group that, hopefully, will align with with us where, like, it would you'd get a link Mhmm. That when you went, it would it would track and it'd be it'd be a permanent link you could use all the time for any restaurant that you went to. And then we'd be able to know that Olivia booked after seeing you go.

Mhmm.

And not only did I book, I ordered a thousand dollars worth of whatever, and they know that you were able to generate a specific ROI to the restaurant on who booked. Because right now, like, I might see your post and I book on OpenTable or maybe I book on Rezi or I book on whatever.

Like, you don't really know It's hard.

That it was me that sent that specific reservation.

We we see this every day. Right?

So we're working with a group now that will that's kind of the, you know Nice.

The upper echelon of the data that I'm super excited about because then they'll we'll be able to know Mhmm.

Right.

And say, hey. Like, we actually killed it this month.

You Right.

We brought in ten grand to new revenue be because you dined with our creators.

You would be so surprised. We will, you know, we'll be talking to some restaurant owners, and they'll say, yeah. We did a a ten thousand dollar media buy in a in a print magazine last month, and our sales went up five percent. So that means that that ten thousand dollar spend is is correlates to the to the five percent increase in sales.

But the reality is there are so many external circumstances that can play a factor in that boost in sales. It could be the restaurant next to you closed down. It could be the weather's been nice for the last couple weeks. Yeah.

There's so many different things that are happening there.

You can also I think you can also layer it too with, like, groups. Right? So don't be so consumed with, like, oh, it's only a two person comp. Like, we can't do more.

Like, no. Encourage it to be a group of influencers. Maybe that's, like, a ten top or whatever. Yeah.

Because then you're, you know, you're serving family style. It's really not that much media.

Each other's content.

Yeah. And then you're getting you're getting a much more bang for your buck when, like, the table's, you know, having a better time too.

The content's gonna be more Absolutely.

More organic.

Something I was just thinking about, if we did a campaign and you and you drove a ton of influencers to a restaurant Yeah.

Did a campaign, using our tech, you'd be able to see the number of new customers that came through specifically the next week.

Mhmm.

New versus returning, whatever the case. And that would give that would provide some data as well.

In addition to that, have you ever done stuff where you're targeting have you ever done campaigns where you're targeting specifically the followers off of an influencer in a local area?

What do you mean?

So let's just let's just say, Nutty Fork. Right?

Yeah.

That, you know, here we work with. Let's just say she posted something.

Yep.

You can run an ad to her followers that are only in a specific area.

Right.

Have you done stuff like that?

That's more, I would say, performance marketing, what you guys do best. Like, the influencers are obviously there to, like, start the initial process, create the content, post about it, and so forth. Yeah. But we haven't done it in that in that capacity.

Because no. But that would be actually insane.

Would just be able to pick the influencer that already had that percentage.

But that I I swear to god, that would absolutely take off. Yeah. No. I'm I'm serious.

Like, you could because there's there's a couple campaigns you can run.

You can run campaign campaigns for just views.

Look at that campaigns.

Right?

Well, you could do a look like, but I'm I'm saying literally, if someone has enough followers and there's enough people in that specific geolocation that you wanna target radius.

That's right.

You could specifically target those people. So let's just say she's got a million followers or whatever it is, and she's got two hundred thousand followers in Miami. Mhmm.

You could run an impressions campaign Mhmm.

Where you're just showing up as many times as possible in front of those people in that area, specifically. So she could do a post at the restaurant.

Would the influencer have to give you, like, permissions to do that? Probably. Right?

They would. Yeah. So we'd run we'd run it through her pay. I would like to try this.

I I'm serious. Do it. Well, talk about repetition. Right? So she does the post, and then you just use that post, and you could do an offer with it or not.

Right?

Right.

But that way, you you save the influencer of of, I don't know, posting about the offer, but you're remarketing to people specifically in that area that have an interest maybe in that brand. I mean, there there's a couple ways to do it. No.

I'd be curious to see how that works.

This this actually this might do really well. I'm serious. I'd like to try this.

Yeah.

Or, I mean, imagine this. So our product, for example, we drive a lot of traffic through Google. Mhmm. Right?

Someone gets to the brand. We pixel them when they hit our menu. Yep. We remarket content accordingly across any meta channel.

Mhmm. That would be sick. If you're getting a remarket in an ad through an influencer from that restaurant, hey. You know, thanks for dining with us recently.

Right? A remarketing ad. Mhmm. By the way, this is our new dish. It's this tomahawk steak.

Mhmm.

Here's whatever influencer and their opinion about it. We hope to see you soon. Book a reservation.

Mhmm.

That would absolutely rip. I'm serious.

Yeah. I think we should try it.

That would be that would be really incredible.

Honestly, I think that'd be really, really cool. Let's talk about So Sorry. Just say something.

Yeah. So I feel we spent a little bit of time covering influencers, and one thing that I've seen a lot of you do very well also that I think could add a lot of value to our listeners is how how should restaurant owners go about media buys and PR as opposed to influencer marketing? Because I've got some friends, good friend of mine from college in Scottsdale, Arizona. He's recently started experimenting with with MediBank for his restaurant, seeing incredible results. Then I have other friends that are that are in the in the restaurant space that have that have spent a shit ton of money on on media buys, and it's yielded literally zero. Mhmm.

So in your experience, through the lens of a restaurant owner, let's say you have a you have your advertising budget or your marketing budget, how should they be looking to allocate that between influencer and PR? And what are some other factors that you would say should weigh into that decision?

Yeah. I think the quality and creativity of the content you're going to use on that smart on that potential media spend is so important. Right? I think that there's sometimes little thought put into that, and we're just determining budgets, and we're like, just run the ads.

Run the ads. But it's like Mhmm. Are these ads actually, like, our best, you know, foot forward in in what we're trying to achieve? And I think that that's, like, step one.

Also, like, are you ready on the back end when you're gonna run those, like, like, media campaigns, like, to be able to, like, you know, have everything set up correctly to be able to retarget those people? A lot of people miss.

A lot of people also have, like, a really bad Instagram or a really bad website.

So it's like you're starting out, like, investing all this initial capital Right. But the backbone of the brand isn't ready for it.

Could you And I think sometimes, like, you get away with it because it's a brand everybody knows sometimes.

But, like, if you're a newer brand and you're trying to make your first impression be the most valuable first impression you can make, I would say, like, make sure all of that is ready before you spend a dollar.

Yeah. Makes sense. I agree.

Just, you know, just just speaking out loud, thinking out loud.

I think also, a lot of restaurant owners as well, like, for example, as you just said, you know, their Instagrams aren't great. They're not professional marketers. You know? Their Right. Their strategies are reactive. They don't have the time to sit there and read about you know, because these platforms are constantly evolving on a daily basis with the algorithms and and all those types of things. So maybe in that case, Mediabank does make more sense because if you can do a a TV appearance on an on a on a local good morning show in your area versus, you know, a extensive digital campaign with an influencer who's gonna drive traffic to your Instagram, they might be subpar.

I have a little bit of a biased opinion on traditional PR because, like, I think it's really great for certain purposes, but I don't think people should also feel that, like, PR, getting an article in, like, The Herald or getting, like, a hit on, like, you know, some sort of dot com. Like, I don't think that is gonna make or break, like, butts in seats type of thing. I think it gives your brand a lot of great credibility, and I think people can say, wow. Like, it was recognized, and that's a really great thing to have in the repertoire.

But I think there's other full circle things that, like, matter more Mhmm. Than just traditional PR. And I think that's why, like, every PR firm now isn't just pitching editors anymore. Like, they're also heavily having to pivot into the influencer marketing space as PR agencies.

Like, it's just that evolution has happened where, like, an influencer can go to your restaurant, and it's so much more measurable than, like, who saw the article Sure. And went.

Yeah. Well, here's what I always think about too.

So many restaurant brands, they they they have some marketing campaign, whether it's PR, influencers, paid ads, whatever. It does well. Mhmm. And then they're like, what's the next thing we're gonna do?

Right.

And I'm like I already won't.

Multiply will work.

Do it again.

It just works. Yeah.

Oh my god. Like, you you've been trying for years to find something that works. You found it. Do it again.

Yeah. I love trying things to determine what works, but then when you find something that works, like, lean in.

Do it again. Yeah. I I always say, like, if if you have something that works so well, try and multiply that success again. Why why reinvent the wheel? It already works, so do it again.

Right? I agree.

Or do something similar.

Yeah.

Or expand to, like, another creative kind of, you know, strategy that that is similar, but not in maybe even exact type of thing.

Yeah. I think I think this, like, omnipresence approach, though, is is what I'm very interested right now because it's like I I always look at Google and Meta. Here's how I look at them differently. Right?

So so Meta is like, hey. You're you're going to the local mall. You don't know know what you wanna do. It's a Sunday.

You're like, hey. Let's just go burn a couple hours. Right? So you go to the mall.

I don't know. You you walk by a Sephora. My girlfriend always wants to walk in a Sephora. Whatever. Then you're hungry. Everybody makes a mistake.

You then you and you go to get some food. Then you're walking around. Oh, like, this, like, candle shop looks cool, whatever. And you're just kinda, like, popping in random stuff, whatever looks good.

Yeah. That's, like, Meta. That's Instagram. That's Facebook. Whatever.

Google is like you're going to a library. You're going to Barnes and Noble, and you're like, I wanna get this specific book. So you go to that section in the library. You go to alphabet order. You get the book. You go. So the intention on buying is actually very high.

Yep.

But I think using both in combination is where you're gonna have great success. People ask me all the time, what would you prefer, Google or Meta? I'm like, dude, it depends what you're doing, number one. But, honestly, both is the answer. Yeah.

I agree.

So I think it's an approach to using everything collectively, and thinking through these things. But I think back to the original part of this conversation, we talked about content. We talked about menu management. We talked about how does your how do you present your items.

If these things don't line up, it doesn't matter what you do after. No one's going to care. Right. No one's gonna care.

Yeah. I think there's really simple things, like, almost like a checklist that's like, you know, am I ready to spend any money if my Instagram is I'm not even proud of it as a business owner.

Yeah.

Like, would I be excited to share my Instagram?

And if the answer is no, like, stay on stay on track.

Point.

Stay on step one.

It's a really good point.

I love that. Until you're right. Yeah.

Right? And then it's like, okay. Like, some people go to Instagram before they even go to your website, but then if they're gonna book a reservation and you hope that they do it on your website, is your website something that you're proud of?

You would be surprised how many times this happens almost every day when we're talking to a restaurant, and they can't even set up their Google My Business page. We we have a we have a weekly we have a weekly newsletter at DineLine, which, you know, every week we try and just add value to to our to our email list. And last week, we literally had to do a checklist on how to set up your Google My Business profile because you would be amazed with with how many restaurants just don't have the basics on there. They don't have the address. Their store hours aren't correct.

You know, the links aren't optimized for SEO, all those types of things.

And, honestly, like, unless they've enlisted somebody that does understand those those key things, like like, they're just here to cook and serve, and they wanna make money. Totally. So it's like and I think marketing is also sometimes the first thing that gets cut. Yeah. But I think it's just for lack of, like, understanding, not like, oh, our marketing, you know, isn't working.

It's like maybe you're just doing the wrong marketing.

What's kinda funny about that too, and Brett and I kinda laugh about this. It's it's more often than not, it's these bigger restaurant chains that are having some sort of sustained success that aren't doing the basics correctly. Whereas, like, these low the local, like, mom and pop stores, they they sometimes tend to have their shit together. But, you know, we we we talked to some some pretty big companies, and you would be amazed at you know, for example, we we were talking to a company I won't name now, and we were doing a deep dive on their existing strategies, and the agency that they use for marketing didn't even have a landing page that loaded correctly on on that website. That was embarrassing.

So it's like Yeah.

You know?

And it No.

It's I have tails all this time.

Yeah.

But I can't believe no.

But no. He's right, though. It is hilarious because what was the brand had, like, fifty locations?

Yeah. It's, like, fifty five locations.

Fifty five locations. And and we in live time. Wow. So I and I don't know if you you probably already know this, but maybe people listening don't know this.

You can go to anyone's Facebook page, and you just go to the about section. You hit page transparency, and you can actually see the ads they're running. K? So we always look at for our our clients we're looking at potentially working with to see, like, what they're doing.

Right. And oftentimes, probably ninety percent of the time, they're wrong about what they're doing on the ad front. Oh, we're running tons of ads. Yeah.

Actually, you're running zero. No.

What do you mean our agency is?

I'm like, no, dude. You're not running any ads. Or they're like, our campaign is about a, b, or c. And I'm like, no, dude.

You're still running campaigns about New Year's. It's November. Like, your New Year's party was ten months ago. Yeah.

Like, what the hell?

No. Totally. I mean, we It's crazy. It's interesting.

Like, we put, a client who's, a dentist Mhmm.

On Maven, and I wasn't sure how that was gonna go because it's not as traditional as, like, going to, like, a cool event or a restaurant or something like that.

Right.

And it was crazy. Everybody was so excited to not have to spend money, you know, out of pocket. Maybe they don't have insurance to come in. So it's like you could get, you know, your cleaning, your x rays, like, all these cool things.

And, like, now the brand is using that content, from the influencer experience to run with all their ads. Wow. So it's like a storytelling experience. So it's like, oh my god.

Look how beautiful this office is. It's not like twenty nineteen twenty five in here. And I had I got to watch Netflix while I was cleaning my teeth. It's Blue Dental, if anybody wants to know.

They're they're they're in the Miami Shores area. They're amazing.

I'd say that that had to be in Miami.

I didn't even buy this, honestly. My dentist, I went to recently. Oh my god. I need someone new.

Yeah. So so, you know, doctor Jared, he's in the content with the influencers. We're doing collaborative posts. Nice.

Yeah. That's amazing.

So, yeah, it was a really cool, like, thing to witness, like, a nontraditional category be utilized where Totally. You know, they're gaining exposure from these people coming in for a dental experience, instead of something a little more sexy.

In in combination with what you're doing with a lot of the restaurants you're working with, what are the other strategies that you typically see them pursuing?

The restaurants, specifically?

To be honest, I've leaned away, quite a bit from restaurants and leaned in more towards, like, in real life experiences and brand paid jobs just because I think our creators, like, we've really emphasized quality over quantity.

Mhmm.

And a lot of the other, like, types of of apps and platforms, like, really lean in hard Got it.

Restaurants. Not to say it's not important. I think it's a great driving factor of influencers back into the platform to get to go to go to cool restaurants. Mhmm.

So we're still working with some. But I think I've pivoted because, like, everybody needs to make money. And, like, that's what that's what's gonna keep my users, like, raving about me isn't just like, oh, they got me a free meal. Like, it's like, wow.

I got paid for this. I, like, met new people at an event.

And and because they're saying that restaurants don't wanna pay. They just wanna give their free meal.

No.

We have we have restaurants that, that, like, that pay us, obviously, for the service, but I think it's a little bit harder to go after the restaurants than it is to, like, an alcohol brand or an airline or a hotel group or somebody that is, you know, building a budget, like, a little bit differently than a restaurant.

Well, bigger budgets probably. Totally.

And I and I actually understand that.

Totally.

And I think that's why it hasn't been, like, our dominant focus Sure.

On restaurants just because I understand it's also, like, a pretty, you know Yeah. Rough time for everybody to just be dishing out thousands of dollars, and and it'd be unclear.

But here's but here's the thing. You're totally right. But it's hilarious because, like so we used to do ecommerce brands. That was our bread and butter years ago.

And we liked ecommerce because it was like, hey. Tracking acquisition was simple. Right? Everything's online.

Right? You click add to cart, checkout, thank you page. Boom. We got transaction. Boom. We got a sale.

And we could scale that budget. Right? Restaurants has always been difficult. Restaurants also typically are are the they're just very hesitant when it comes to putting any kind of budget behind their marketing Mhmm.

At least the ones that aren't thriving. Right? But it's it's it's really what we what we try to educate our clients on is the truth is, like, in our business, for example, we we I I joke about it, but we can't afford to not run ads anymore. We're we're at the point where we have a whole team that is just onboarding, costs us thousands and thousands a month.

Yep. We spend about a hundred thousand a month on advertising for our for our company.

Phenomenal.

And I I swear to god, if we turned it off, we would lose money. We can't afford to not run those ads because there's there's so much growth that we're pushing into it.

Cooking.

Yeah. And I and I think, like, likewise with what you guys are doing, like, I I think it's just a a mindset thing because some of these brands, they're struggling. Hey. If you're struggling, hey. Maybe it's time to invest more in your marketing. Right?

But I think why there's That's a scary thing to hear when people say that to you.

Totally.

But but But what if it doesn't work?

Exactly. But what if it does? Right?

Like and and yeah.

And the cost of doing nothing sometimes is is a is a lot higher than if I start to transact them down. Totally. Just I wanted to kinda just come back to something we touched on, which I thought was interesting. So you mentioned how you your agency personally is moving moving away from restaurants because you're into more experiential things for for other brands. What about so you're obviously involved in in two big events here in Miami, Moda Volleyball, which is your own South Beach food and wine festival, which you and I have had discussions about as well.

What advice or experience do you have for restaurants that are looking to get involved more in event driven marketing? Maybe doing pop ups outside of their brick and mortar locations, aligning with with event brands like your own or or tons of others, especially markets like Miami where these big events seem to be happening on a weekly basis. Mhmm. But restaurants, they don't have that experience.

Talk to us a little bit about that. For example, what is your acquisition strategy for restaurants at at your own events?

Yeah. I think it's interesting. Right? Like, sometimes you gotta meet people, like, in other places for them to learn about you.

Sure. So, even, like, at model volleyball, like, we try to empower local partners to be involved in our VIP area. So it's usually about ten restaurants max and, like, you know, all of our VIPs and, you know, are able to say, oh my god. I never even heard of, you know, this ceviche place or this whatever it is.

So you get to try it.

Yeah.

Same with food and wine. It obviously does it on a massive scale, with, like, their grand tasting.

Like, I would I would as long as you can fulfill the bandwidth at an event like that and be ready and have the staff that's not only just preparing the food, but, like, the quality the quality control that you're giving out is also something really important because you're doing so many things so fast. And I think also just important because you're doing so many things so fast.

And I think also just having, like, if you, you know, you're going to these incredible events, you're having, you know, the time of your life over a weekend and and you you eat at a restaurant that's doing a pop up there, you're gonna have that affinity to that restaurant for years years and years to come.

Because, you know, you were there. You were at that experience. You, you know, you you Yeah. And I Those same feelings will always come back to you every time you associate that brand. Right?

Yeah. No. Totally. And I've been in situations where, like, the restaurant isn't I'm at a different venue and the restaurant's, like, at that venue.

Yeah.

Right?

So, like, I think as long as the restaurant, like, it's lucrative enough to obviously push and make make that move Yep.

It's special to to do something to do something like that.

For listeners though that don't know what model volleyball is, and I've never been, but I've only heard the best things about it ever.

I'm not a big one to twice. Yeah.

But I'm I'm I'm super excited not just to go this year, but also potentially be one of your VIP partners.

Hell yeah.

And so so but I can you tell everyone what what it is? Because it it seems so damn cool.

It's it's a fun one for sure.

Yeah.

Tell us about it.

Yeah. So it'll be our fifteenth year Oh my god. In March.

I know I look twenty seven, but, you know, it's it's You do.

You look ashamedly.

So it'll be our fifteenth year.

It is a free event. It's open to the public. It's a two day event on the beach, on Saturday and Sunday. This year, it's gonna be March twenty ninth and thirtieth.

Yes. And anybody can come. We've got two big volleyball courts, a stage, the top twelve modeling agencies playing in this beach volleyball tournament. There's DJs.

There's sponsors giving out free stuff all every direction you look, cool activations, content opportunities, a whole whole bunch of good good stuff. Yeah. We also sell tables. So we have, like, a table service, like, more party Yeah.

Type area on-site, and then we have really cool events leading up to, the tournament. So in our honor of our fifteenth year, it's gonna be model volleyball week this year.

So we'll have a ton of different things.

I mean, your event has definitely become a staple in in the Miami Festival circuit. I would say it's, you know, been here for twelve years, and it's just been great to see that brand grow. And I would say for any restaurant owners that are listening that are boots on the garden in Miami, it's it's a really, really cool experience to be involved with.

Thank you.

As Brett just mentioned, you know, we're we're definitely gonna be coming in as a VIP partner on our end as well.

So There are is actually another cool element we're adding this year that we're working on.

So we're talking to a pretty big food influencer that does not actually even live here, to build out a mini food festival Oh.

On-site, that would be ticketed, whereas, like, model volleyball isn't, but, like, this specific area would be ticketed.

And it would be, like, a little mini, like, food and beverage That's amazing. High end experience with with partners Wow. Powered by this particular influencer. Yeah.

And I'm assuming you can't say the who it is yet.

I don't wanna jinx it yet.

Yeah. No worries.

I will get with the call tomorrow, so maybe by time, we'll just launch it now.

How would how would anyone listen to this that wanted to get involved from a vendor standpoint and get in touch with you, just moda volleyball dot com?

Yeah. We are just the words model in volleyball and everything. So Instagram model volleyball, website model volleyball, everywhere.

Just the model. Trade bars. God. That is so cool. No. We I I I I need to go personally. It sounds amazing.

Yeah. It's really cool.

Yeah.

And we're working with the palm tree crew this year on our, like, VIP and, like, some music They're great.

Some music elements. Yeah. They're amazing. They're opening their new property in the old trucker space. So we'll have some of our kickoff stuff with with them at the new space.

But, yeah, honestly, like, come one, come all. Model volleyball is something that we, invite everyone, every age group, family, kids.

Like, it's just a really fun experience Mhmm.

To be there and and watch the games and and experience That's so cool.

Full and full through. So we're we're almost done on time here. But just, like, last final question is you you do so many different things. You you've had such incredible success.

Three different companies and relatively small team, but you guys are just pumping. It seems like growing every single year. Number one, how how do you personally get better as a leader every single year? How do you how do you manage all this and consistently learn and get better? How do you improve? What what's what's your secret?

I think now the last recent years more than ever, I think I was always just like a fast paced. Like, I thrived in, like, chaotic fast paced environments where most people, like, run from those Totally. Moments.

Like, I think You thrive and you love it.

I thrive and I think and I think I find myself very calm Yeah.

In those moments where a lot of people don't, and they're like, this isn't for me. So I think knowing that about myself, but also last recent few years, I think I've leaned into doing most what I enjoy most.

Mhmm.

And I think a lot of people sometimes get still get caught up in things that, like, they don't enjoy.

Mhmm.

And I think that's why I've, you know, added things to the business and pivoted and started to do things. And I think I've leaned in on where my superpowers are the most. Yeah. You know, even when I started building Maven, I was like, wow.

Such a good marketing person. Like, I'm gonna do such cool marketing. Yeah. And then I realized, like, no.

Like, I am gonna be the head of product because that is what people are excited about.

Price is everything.

Product is everything. So it's like, I think just recognizing, like, where you belong, most and, like, where your superpowers are and and just supporting the team in other areas, but not being as, you know, specific as maybe you always once were on on something.

Yeah.

I see what you're saying. Well, I think it's it's a matter of of knowing what you're good at, what you love, and going after that, and and finding help when you need it too. Right?

Yeah. I also think I took on a business coach, within the last year, which wasn't something that I thought I'd ever do. And it has completely, like, opened up, like, pockets of, you know, forcing me to think differently.

Got it.

And shout out to coach Matt.

Let's go. Yeah.

So I think finding a good fit of somebody that isn't a family member, isn't a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a wife, a husband, whoever it is, like, somebody that's just totally about your mental physical success as an entrepreneur has also been something that's allowed me to, like, work in a different mental capacity where, like, I'm pushed differently.

That's great.

Yeah.

What about any any books or podcasts you've come across recently that you'd recommend for anyone?

To be honest, I'm not I'm not a big podcaster, unfortunately.

I like I like You like being on the podcast.

I like being on the podcast.

But, you know, I I think I like my downtime to, like, not be something that's, like, forcing, like, the mental For sure.

Stimulation for me.

I think my downtime is, like, watching a stupid show Yeah. Or or, like, going to the beach or going to the spa or, like, doing something like that is what I think rejuvenates me more than Cool.

Something else. Yeah. Cool.

Well, this has been awesome.

Thank you.

Appreciate everything.

I had a lot of fun here with you guys.

Thank you. Yeah. Very much.

Absolutely. And, yeah, we we can't wait for mono volleyball and all the other things we're gonna do. I know we have plans to maybe do some dinners together and all that kind of stuff. Definitely. I I really want to think through this campaign I talked about earlier where we can Oh, no.

We're not gonna do that.

Both of our services.

I I think, I mean, any brand listening to this right now is interested in doing a collaboration between both of our companies on an influencer campaign plus an aggressive paid campaign on advertising, hey. Reach out to us. Let us know. We'd love to try it out with you. And, again, appreciate your time, Olivia.

This has been awesome.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Olivia. Alright. Thanks.